Coin Talk

There has been much discussion on the forum lately about how easy it is to artificially tone coins and get them past the graders at NGC & PCGS. I contend that it is very difficult to get an AT/QT coin in a top tier slab whereas others think they are quite prevalent. I have decided to start this thread to see if we can help settle the debate and have a little fun in the process. Now, don't get mad, but this can't be a free for all, we gotta have some rules to the game, so here they are.

The Rules to the AT/QT game:

1) ONE COIN AT A TIME: We can't be discussing more than one coin at the same time, so if you have a coin that you want to include in the thread, please be patient and wait your turn. The rule for whose turn is next will be discussed a little later.

2) 1 POINT FOR MAJORITY RULES in 24 HOURS: Once a coin is posted, respondents may either deem the coin AT/QT (artificial/questionable toning) or NT/MA (Natural/Market Acceptable Toning). After 24 hours,...

As many of you know, my son and I have been working on cleaning and ID'ing mostly Late Roman Bronzes. Most of the coins we have in the collection are ones that we have cleaned ourselves. The vast majority of those are well...for lack of a better word...junk. We have only had a few really nice ones that were very easy for us to ID.

This has lead to a lot of sleuthing and learning, not to mention a fair share of frustration. But we have managed to do a pretty good job if I do say so myself. Well, on Halloween we received a package in the mail with some absolutely beautiful coins to identify and add to my son's collection. These are way beyond anything we have scrubbed up or purchased on our trip to Baltimore. We saw coins like this but they were not in our price range nor our current level of expertise (if you call what we have now "expertise" lol).

My son was flabbergasted and his eyes got as big as some of these coins haha. Unfortunately, since they came on Halloween, we weren't...

In the spirit of recent discussions I thought it might be interesting to ask this question - can you define artificial toning ? But not so much identifying it on given coins, but rather the methods used to artificially tone coins. Or, if you prefer, is this way or that way artificial or is it natural ?

For example, I'll start with one method I've mentioned recently in another thread - using coin albums to intentionally tone coins. With that method there's basically 2 ways to do it. You can buy the albums, that are well known for producing coins with gorgeous toning, place coins in them and simply wait for it to happen, or not happen as the case may be. But, you do this quite intentionally and for no other reason than hopefully to cause the coins to tone. Is that artificial or natural toning ?

Second way, buy the same albums, put the same coins in them, store the album in a location with high humidity and higher than normal temperatures. Is that artificial toning or is it natural ?...

Very much a work in progress ………
All comments and corrections very welcome

As Mattingly points out in "Coins of the Roman Empire in the British Museum" (BMCRE), Volume I, the main purpose of Countermarks on coins was to extend their circulation under new authority.

In his article "The Countermark PROB on Coins of Claudius I from Britain" (The Numismatic Chronicle Vol. 148 {1988}, pp. 53-61), Robert Kenyon points out that after his conquest of Britain in 42AD (and maybe planned before) Claudius issued large quantities of early OB CIVES SERVATOS (without PP) and SPES Sestertii of 41AD (minted in Rome) for use in general commerce in Britain.

All of this coinage was countermarked PROB (Probatum=approved) on the coin obverse.

It seems that there was a large amount of irregular coinage struck in Gaul with Roman Imperial approval in order to provide additional currency, especially in Britain following the...

We regularly have posts of the FEL TEMP REPARATIO type "Falling Horseman" showing the defeat of a mounted barbarian but Constantius II and others of his day also issued a type where the horseman is shown killing the foot soldier. One of these was among my most recent purchases from the recent Virginia Numismatic association show.

Constantius II AE2 GLORIA ROMANORVM RP Rome mint

Other than the reversal of reverse victor, the coins show other changes from what we see on the Falling Horsemen. The reverse legend is usually GLORIA ROMANORVM

The obverse portrait includes an armored arm holding a globe under the chin. The above example shows the pearl diadem option (RIC 195, 198 or 204 but my previous example (below) of the type had the laurel and rosette diadem portrait making the coin RIC 196, 199 or 205.


How is it that the coins each fall under three different RIC numbers? RIC separates the coins into three groups...

The region of Champagne is today best known for its distinctive sparkling wine. The common belief is that a 17th century monk named Dom Perignon invented the drink, and was said to have likened it to 'tasting the stars.' This has been disputed, and the real inventor of Champagne is unknown, but the region which lends its name to the drink would be an important area for trade long before it was famed for alcohol.


A bishop blesses the opening of a fair. From the 14th century. Image from English Heritage.

A variety of factors were coming together in the twelfth century which would see a resurgence of trade. The end of the Viking invasions lead to a rise in population, which in turn lead to urban growth. The urban growth lead to a growth of markets to sell perishable goods and crafts. Larger seasonal markets, usually held on or near church...

A typical Monday at NGC..... nearly 1000 Alexander type drachms to sort and identify. Does this sound like fun to you? Would you like a job that allowed you to play with ancient coins all day? If so you may be the person we are looking for. NGC is currently looking to hire an additional member for the NGC Ancients team. Ideally we would like to find someone with 20-30 years experience. Realistically though, someone who can tell the difference between an Alexander the Great tetradrachm and a Severus Alexander denarius might be good enough. If you think this sounds appealing and like the idea of living in sunny Florida, send your resume to me at bmurphy@ngccoin.com.

With the season of the witch upon us I thought I'd kick things off with a spook-coin-tacular post of scary, macabre and just plain gory imagery on ancient coins.
We can thank the Celts for Samhain and a bunch of awesome near abstract stylized knock offs of our favorite ancients (Gods bless those pagans). Over 2,000 years ago the Celts would have celebrated their new years bash and harvest festival on the 31st of October (November 1st was new years day for them). And these parties were epic! The greater the previous years sacrifice the more abundant this years harvest. Keeping in mind that the history on them is written by those who would want them remembered as a bunch of debauched, lustful, psychos
We are told that they felt that it was a liminal time. Due to the changes going on with the world the boundaries between our world and others was thinned and we would be more able to communicate with the spirits and fairies.
Though, we can...

A long and boring post without any exciting coin eye candy follows. I’m so sorry!

Anyway, I have been reading a bit lately about the role of provenance in the fine art world (eg the record of who has owned the art and where it has been since it was created) and that started me thinking about it’s current and future role in the coin world.

On these boards a coin’s connection to a well known collection, horde, or use as a plate coin is generally seen as a plus and in auctions is often advertised by a seller, presumably as it will lead to a higher price. And I’ve seen several people on this board and Forvm suggest keeping dealer and any old collection tags.

But for the most part, when it comes to coins, or at least, most low value coins, it seems provenance is generally over looked. That makes sense of course, the time and paperwork involved in tracking the provenance of a low value coin with relatively low margins on sale is going to be uneconomical, and there are privacy issues...

As of today, the old VAMWorld, hosted by Wikispaces since 2006, is no longer accessible. It's replacement, VAMWorld 2.0, has been live for a couple months, and the vamworld.com domain has also already been moved, such that casual users might have only noticed a slightly different look when going to the VAMWorld home page.

VAMWorld was started in mid-2006 by Rob Joyce, now Senior Advisor to the Director NSA for Cyber Security Strategy. He thought it would be easier to have a wiki for the growing VAM catalog that it would be for him to release another print edition of "Fun in 1921," which was guide to neat die breaks on 1921-D Morgan dollars. His first post to the message board was short and sweet, "Just wanted to see if anyone ever looked in the message boards. Not sure if they are something we should use for VAM discussions or not." Twelve years of activity and counting have answered that question.

The transition to the new VAMWorld was made challenging in part by Wikispaces,...