[Game] World Coins Time Machine… Counting Backward by Year! (Plus Prize Coin)

For some reason or other I have stopped receiving notifications that someone had added something to this thread. I thought things had gone surprisingly quiet so I checked and indeed found some new coins and years had been added, so let me make a contribution.

1619 - 1622 is, of course, the time of the so-called Kipper- und Wipperzeit in the Holy Roman Empire, the time at the beginning of the Thirty Years' War when numerous mints, official and unofficial , struck a plethora of debased coinage, ending in ruinous inflation. Here are a few Kipper coins:

1622 Austria-Hungary Ferdinand II Graz mint Kipper Taler of 150 Kreuzer






1622 Austria- Hungary Ferdinand II Kipper 75 Kreuzer struck in Brunn, Moravia

A consortium led by a Flemish businessman, Hans de Witte (other members were Wallenstein, Karl von Liechstenstein and their main financier, Javob Bassevi), purchased from Emperor Ferdinand II a patent for a year (Jan.1622-March 1623) to strike 150 and 75 Kreuzer, 1/2 gulden (37 1/2 kr.) and groschen in Bohemia, Moravia & Austria under the Enns .


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1621 Austria-Hungary Ferdinand II Kipper 48 Kreuzer Graz mint (value not easily visible but in orb on eagle's breast)







Germany STRALSUND Kipper Taler (32 schilling) 23.12 g Apart from the weight well below the standard 28 g for a Taler, the arrowhead under the cross on the obverse faces downwards, the opposite to regular Stralsund issues.





Finally an undated Kipper 24 Kreuzer of Saxe-Alte-Altenburg struck at Lucka

 

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DEA - thanks for your interest. And I seem to be back on the notification list for contributions to this thread.

I would be interested in anyone else's Kipper coins, especially issues struck by obscure mints
To keep the ball rolling, here is a 1622 Kipper "Taler" (24 groschen) struck in the not so obscure city of Erfurt with interesting obverse and reverse legends reflecting the times;

Obv.: ERFFORDTISCHE x SONDERE x STADTSORTT (special city ort (1/4 Taler, i.e. kipper) of Erfurt
Rev.: .GOTT + BESSERE + DIE_LEVPTE + VND x ZEITEN (may God make better the people and the times).

 

It’s interesting to see a vernacular language used on a coin this old. I suppose it’s similar in that way to a coin of the Commonwealth of England.

 

If you fail to visit a thread after a notification, you will get no more notifications until you do.That way the system avoids sending out thousands of notification emails to people who have lost interest or otherwise gone off line. Makes sense really.

 

I could use some educating, talerman. I have a pretty good grasp on the meaning of kippers (clipped or shaved silver coins) and wippers (something to do with weighing), but I'm not confident I could explain it well to anyone. And I haven't a clue how to apply kipper to any specific coins. Are we looking for a red tinge?

Does the coin in this post fit? https://www.cointalk.com/threads/germany-a-little-help.317938/

Thanks in advance! Have a great day!

 

It indeed makes sense. Thank you for the explanation.

 

There is a good quick summary of the Kipper-Wipper story in Wikipedia: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kipper_und_Wipper.

Any coin struck from late 1619 to early 1623 is suspect. Many are underweight which is fairly easy to detect. Many are debased silver with a greater copper content which is less easy to detect (and I have never noticed a red tinge). Some have funny denominations, like 150 Kreuzer. Many were struck at mints that did not have the legal mint right and often only produced coins in the Kipper- and Wipper period, for example the coins struck at small towns like Beeskow, Camenz, Cottbus, Drossen, Furstenwalde, Goldberg, Gorlitz, Guben, Krossen, Kustrin, Kyritz etc. Also rulers with the mint right opened additional mints, perhaps so it would be less easy for them to be held responsible for the debased coinage. If you look up Saxe-Old - Altenburg in the Krause Standard Catalog of German coins, you will see the principal mint was Saalfeld (and briefly Gotha) but many other mints were in operation during the Kipper period. I posted a coin yesterday struck in Lucka which only operated in 1621-22. A strange mintmark can therefore be another clue (although many wanted to remain anonymous and avoided mintmarks).

Less well known outside Germany is what German historians call the Second (or small ) Kipperzeit. This was another period of high inflation and currency debasement, although less catastrophic and less defined. It reached its height between 1675 and 1695, although one expert, Wielandt, stretches it from 1680-1750. But that is another story.

 

Excellent, talerman! Thanks! I was actually laughing out loud with Wiki's explanation. Maybe I've a warped sense of humor but I found this amusing; "Often the states did not debase their own currency, but instead manufactured low-value imitations of coins from other territories and then spent them in yet other territories as far as possible from their own lands, hoping that the resulting damage would then occur to the economy of those other regions rather than their own. This worked for a while; but after a time, the general public caught on to the manipulation, resulting in pamphlets denouncing the practice, local riots and the refusal of soldiers and mercenaries to fight unless paid in real, non-debased money. Also the states began to get back their own debased coins in taxes and customs fees."

Talk about economic warfare! I'm terribly amused by the boomerang effect in the last sentence.

All that said, I've nothing else in the time period really. Other than that 16Z3 Isenbeck# 1 you straightened me out on, I've an undated ten kreuzer from Constance (KM 119) but dated around 1623. But I would most certainly love to see what other folks have.

 

My contribution to 1621 with the most well preserved double tournois minted for Marie de Montpensier I've ever seen


France, Dombes, Marie de Montpensier - double tournois 1621

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1621 German States, Brunswick Wolfenbuttel 12 Kreuzer. It's pretty rough but I like it.

 

I too like your 1621 Brunswick Wolfenbuttel, twelve kreuzer. Rough? Perhaps. But still a beaut. I am keenly amused and taken with that sovereignty's wildman images.

 

I’m kind of addicted to the wildman coins. This one speaks to me because it has a completely different appearance than the others in my collection.

 

How do you mean a different appearance, Chris B? I share your addiction!

I would, and I'm sure other would too, like to see the others in your collection. But maybe this isn't the correct forum? I don't know. Maybe start a new post with your wildman coins? I'll add mine; I'm sure I have one.

 

I like that idea. I’ll start a new post tomorrow with as many photos as it will let me include. I am new here but I will figure it out.

 

I have a 1621
AV St. Gallen AV 2 Dukaten 1621

Coins from this Swiss Canton are rarely seen....
Just like Bern, this Canton had a "Brown Bear" as its mascot. Reverse features the Double Headed Imperial Eagle.
John