We have completed all 13 Jefferson Nickel GTG threads and now it is time to see if we can glean anything from the results. The 13 threads included 8 NGC coins that were all graded MS67, and 5 ICG graded coins that had various grades. Let's see how the Cointalk graders compared to those from NGC and ICG. I will post a link to each GTG thread and then provide the Cointalk average grade and variance from the assigned grade. Baker's Dozen GTG #1 1942-P Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67 Cointalk Grade: 66.12 Variance: -0.88 Baker's Dozen GTG #2 1942-P Jefferson Nickel ICG MS65 Cointalk Grade: 65.33 Variance: +0.33 Baker's Dozen GTG #3 1943-P Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67 Cointalk Grade: 65.88 Variance: -1.12 Baker's Dozen GTG #4 1943-P Jefferson Nickel ICG MS65 Cointalk Grade: 65.8 Variance: +0.8 Baker's Dozen GTG #5 1943-D Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67 Cointalk Grade: 66.06 Variance: -0.94 Baker's Dozen GTG #6 1943-D Jefferson Nickel ICG MS66 5FS Cointalk Grade: 66.05 Variance: +0.05 Baker's Dozen GTG #7 1943-S Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67 Cointalk Grade: 67.11 Variance: +0.11 Baker's Dozen GTG #8 1944-D Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67 Cointalk Grade: 66.33 Variance: -0.67 Baker's Dozen GTG #9 1944-D Jefferson Nickel ICG MS67 Cointalk Grade: 65.52 Variance: -1.48 Baker's Dozen GTG #10 1944-S Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67 Cointalk Grade: 66.42 Variance: -0.58 Baker's Dozen GTG #11 1945-D Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67 Cointalk Grade: 66.55 Variance: -0.45 Baker's Dozen GTG #12 1945-S Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67 Cointalk Grade: 66.93 Variance: -0.07 Baker's Dozen GTG #13 1945-S Jefferson Nickel ICG MS67 Cointalk Grade: 66.54 Variance: -0.46 NGC Variances: 1942-P Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67: -0.88 1943-P Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67: -1.12 1943-D Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67: -0.94 1943-S Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67: +0.11 1944-D Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67: -0.67 1944-S Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67: -0.58 1945-D Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67: -0.45 1945-S Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67: -0.07 Average Variance: -0.58 ICG Variances: 1942-P Jefferson Nickel ICG MS65: +0.33 1943-P Jefferson Nickel ICG MS65: +0.80 1943-D Jefferson Nickel ICG MS66: +0.05 1944-D Jefferson Nickel ICG MS67: -1.48 1945-S Jefferson Nickel ICG MS67: -0.46 Average Variance: -0.15 It seems clear that the Cointalk graders are more in line with the grading standards of ICG than NGC. With the exception of the 1944-D MS67 which showed the highest variance of all the GTG threads, the remainder of the ICG grades were very close with 3 of the coins actually graded more conservatively by the Cointalk graders than the ICG. There was only 1 NGC coin that achieved that feat which was the incredible 1943-S. Now, this little exercise is anecdotal, and far too small a sample size to draw any scientific conclusions about the accuracy of NGC grading vs ICG grading, but there certainly is enough evidence to say that there are some nice accurately graded coins that reside in ICG holders and that we should not simply discount ICG graded coins as substandard.
Fun and detailed GTG. What a great exercise. Here are my results and a few details. I listed my own variances and if they were FS or + #1 66 (low 1 grade) #2 66 5FS (high 1 grade) -FS #3 67 (correct) #4 66+ (high 1.5 grade) #5 67 (correct) #6 66 5FS (correct) -FS #7 67+ (correct) -+ #8 67 (correct) #9 66 5FS (low 1 grade) -FS #10 67 (correct) #11 67 (correct) #12 67 (correct) #13 67+ (correct) -+ My average grade for the NGC slabs was 66.9 guessing 7 of 8 correctly. My average grade for the ICG slabs was 66.4 guessing 2 of 5 correctly. I felt the two best coins of the group were #7 and #13. #7 had 10% of people give it a +. #13 had 30% give it a +. My favorite of the group being #7. Cointalk agrees as #7 was voted the highest average grade amongst the group and the only coin with an average over 67.
I only got 2 correct, but was consistently low on most of the others which doesn't surprise me. Thanks for the exercise.
This was a fun exercise! ddddd vs actual 1) 67 vs 67 (correct) NGC 2) 66+ vs 65 (+1.5) ICG 3) 66 vs 67 (-1) NGC 4) 65 vs 65 (correct) ICG 5) 66 vs 67 (-1) NGC 6) 66 vs 66 5fs (correct grade; missed steps) ICG 7) 67 vs 67 (correct) NGC 8) 66 vs 67 (-1) NGC 9) 66+ vs 67 (-0.5) ICG 10) 66+ vs 67 (-0.5) NGC 11) 66+ vs 67 (-0.5) NGC 12) 67 vs 67 (correct) NGC 13) 67 vs 67 (correct) ICG ....it's interesting that the only one I over graded was an ICG (#2); I didn't think any were 5fs (don't fully agree with ICG on #6-although looking at it again, it is close enough)...some of the 67s from NGC were certainly better (A level) vs others
Interesting I had hoped that there would be a little more interaction, Pretty sure I was a plus or minus away in the final results. Fun Jeffs @Lehigh96
Ant2242 vs actual 1) 67 vs 67 (correct) NGC 2) Missed it vs 65 ICG 3) 66 vs 67 (low 1 grade) NGC 4) 67 vs 65 (high 2 grades) ICG 5) 67 vs 67 (correct) NGC 6) 67 5FS vs 66 5FS (high 1 grade) ICG 7) 68 vs 67 (high 1 grade) NGC 8) 67 vs 67 (correct) NGC 9) 67 vs 67 (correct) ICG 10) 67 vs 67 (correct) NGC 11) 66 vs 67 (low 1 grade) NGC 12) 67 vs 67 (correct) NGC 13) 67 vs 67 (correct) ICG 7/12 correct -- I missed #2
@Lehigh96 I don't know that this statement is true. The logic you used would say that the average variance would be 0 if, for instance, there were 6 coins and on 3 we were 2 grades high and on 3 we were 2 grades low. When, in reality, we were 2 grades off on every coin. If we use this logic and look at the absolute variance to grade (rather than the +/-) the data shows that on average we are 0.624 off on ICG and 0.6025 on NGC. So, I would argue that we grade about the same relative to both TPGs
Another problem is that all the NGC coins were MS67s whereas 3 of the 5 ICG coins were less than MS67. People know that I tend to deal in the premium gem grade range and are unlikely to think that I would buy (or submit) an MS65 coin. And I agree that the variance should be calculated irrespective of which direction it missed, but the one ICG coin still makes up most of the variance for the entire ICG group. I think that as a group, Cointalk graders were closer to the actual grade on many of the ICG coins and screwed the pooch on one which destroyed the overall variance. I do think it is safe to say that ICG doesn't routinely overgrade coins by 1-2 points which is how the market place treats them.
Good points and agree with the last one, for sure. I was busy the last few days and only had the chance to vote on two. But, to help make your point, I was 1 grade high on one and 1 grade low on the other. The one I was low on was the ICG holder.
