[Ancients] It’s Time! The Second Annual Coin Imperator Tournament (2018)

Anywhere. Though I imagine people would have an idea first, then figure out a suggestion based on coins through any period. My mind is already racing at the concept, though I know my wife would not want to move anywhere!

 

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I’ll put my Acheloios coins against an EID MAR any day! (Says the guys who always loses round 1!)

 

Sorry, but a popularity contest is all it is, as are all such contests. I mean, the question is which is most popular (phrased any way). Still the same. I dont mean to disparage anyones opinion. I often wonder if others see the same thing I do in a coin, but I was late to submit and cannot see if others like coins that I do.

I dont doubt that it would win. It would. Hands down, just by reputation. Despite any condition it represents such a tremendous moment in history. If one of our members submitted one I think it would win. There are plenty of historical events which might compare, but I doubt any could compare in the average (and popular) mind of the average person.

True. I have handled countless unique coins. Rarity means nothing unless one or more persons have an interest. Silly collectors of modern coins might pay 100 Million Dollars but might also be able to pay $5 for a unique ancient. Go figure.....

 

I think you're missing some of the finer points that @TIF very elequently explained. I strongly encourage you to review the matches that have taken place so far.

The Eid Mar is an iconic coin, for sure, but historical interest only accounts for 33% of the score. It would lose to a beautiful budget coin, no doubt in my mind based on previous matches. The tournament so far has seen Byzantine and Chinese coins defeat beautiful Greek tetradrachms. That's because it's a game, not a popularity contest.

But there is no need for us to belabor the point here. As I said I hope you follow along with the game and come to your own decisions on what it is after you've seen it play out. Everyone seems to be having fun which is really the whole point though.

 

No, it would be quite unlikely to win in this specific game setup because it would not likely garner the votes for Bargain and Visual Appeal. It would get 100% of the votes for Historical or Numismatic Value but would still likely lose.

It's a moot point (or moo point, if you're Joey Tribbiani) since AJ didn't enter and he sold his EID MAR anyway

 

While that is possible I think some people are interpreting bargain as below a particular number or value. It is as if a coin that costs over 500.00 cannot possibly be a bargain. There is a bias on this board against expensive coins and not just in this contest. One of the reasons I deliberately did not put comparable values down for my JC was that I did not want it to appear that I was boasting or showing off too much (even tough some members here spend 30-50 times more than I am willing or able to spend).

If you search for comparable coins to my JC it becomes apparent that the coin would have been a very good purchase at more than twice what I paid. Is this not a bargain? Just as I cannot afford to spend 10,000 on a single coin some people cannot or choose not to spend over one hundred dollars. That is fine there is room for everyone in this hobby. Several weeks ago there was a thread that got nasty because one member suggested that those who spend a lot on a coin should not be treated as legitimate collectors when compared to those who choose to spend their money on many cheaper coins. A bargain should be judged not by the total amount spent but by a comparison between what you spent and the fair market value for that particular coin at this particular time.

 

All good points. I suppose I prefer to just let the voters decide what constitutes a "bargain" for them personally. As far as nasty comments I am just glad that we have such a friendly board so that we don't often have to deal with such. Hopefully we will continue to not within this tournament All collecting preferences are perfectly valid and legitimate regardless of budget.

Either way, it seems that many people, myself included, recognized that your JC was a great bargain and a great coin, well played.

 

Im sorry guys and gals. Maybe I am being too harsh. Maybe I just dont understand the thread. I dont know. Honestly I am in a weird place contemplating natural disaster, my place in this world, etc. With what I am faced with now, and what I have just seen, well...

 

I am thouroughly enjoying this as I did last year when my coin didn't make it off the starting block. As far as bargains go, I try to research the average cost of each coin, and then make a judgement from there (of course condition plays a big role).

Thanks @Curtisimo for taking the time to manage this contest and making it such fun.

 

Opinions and nothing more:
1. We could work on adding a few more voting categories or changing the three if we determine that it favors something too heavily. The value vote is supposed to rate how well the person did in obtaining that coin. If a person won a normally $1000 coin for $900, that is a bargain. If they paid $1000 for a normally $100 coin (High Ratings?), that is not. We currently have one listed as a sleeper at 1/10th going rate because of the seller not knowing the difference.

2. I agree it is a popularity contest for many. Rather than holding firm to the categories which would require me to call a $200 Tribute Penny a bargain and a $200 Falling Horseman variety overpriced, I do have the option of saying I just like coin A better than coin B so I am giving it all three of my votes. Will I have trouble voting for a coin from someone on my 'Ignore' list if they play next year (none this year)? You can not write rules for everything. I strongly prefer the contests to the seemingly neverending posts of fakes many of which turn out to be by people who already knew the answer but were just trying to show we are fools. I assume you missed our recent drama and all his now banned ID's.

3. I retired in the best possible place FOR ME. You would not like it. One of my college professors retired to a place he bought in Greece. 50 years ago he started vacationing there and found exactly where he wanted to die. Fifty years ago it really bothered him what the locals were doing inside Mycenaean beehive tombs. I wonder by now if he has a 'gotta go when you gotta go' attitude. We change. Both of my (divorced) parents retired to Florida and moved back to Indiana after 10-20 years when all their Florida friends had died. Picking a long term perfect answer is harder than you think. We retired here 15 years ago. In that time we have had minor damage from earthquakes, two trees that fell and hit the house, a couple hurricanes, tornadoes within a few miles, minor civil unrest, bad pollen, years of seemingly constant rain or none at all. Twice we could smell smoke from fires but the kind we get here don't make the national news. My daughter's house is a hundred yards north thru the woods and the woods are full of chiggers. Like I said, picking a long term perfect answer is harder than you think.

 

I second that! Thanks so much @Curtisimo for all of your work on this.

 

How so very true. Life changes!

 

Value is in the eye of the beholder and nothing else. Dollar amounts mean nothing.

Yup. For most. Not all, but most (99.9%). Nothing wrong with that.

If I could only convince my wife! There are plenty places for all of us and for various reasons. We just need to get there!

 

Thanks guys and thanks also to @dougsmit for his on point comments, as usual.

It's a relief that folks realize the spirit of the game. Putting these kinds of events on is my way to give back to the forum... I'm already planning what my holiday giveaway game will be this year. Perhaps another "Guess the CTer" or maybe even a round of CT Jeapardy time will tell...

Edit to add: As for clogging the boards, the number of active threads will decrease considerably with each successive round.

 

That is how I often vote. But I have voted for the more-expensive coin a couple of times because it was either far more historically interesting or it was far below what I would expect to have paid

 

A broken VF Boshan knife is currently almost tied with a rare tetradrachm in EF condition. That seems pretty unbiased to me.

 

I sympathize with (and to some extent pity) those for whom these tournament threads are more of an annoyance than anything else, but similar "clogging" comments were probably made in Olympia 2,500 years ago, as they almost certainly are in whatever city hosts the modern Olympics today. Still, aren't we glad we have them?

ELIS, Olympia
AR Hemidrachm. 2.28g, 17.6mm. ELIS, Olympia, Hera mint, 111th-114th Olympiad, 336-324 BC. HGC 5 -; Seltman, Temple, p. 104, pl. XII, 25; BCD Olympia 336.8. O: Head of Hera right. R: Eagle standing right, head left; thunderbolt to right, FA to left.

 

Tournament Update
We officially have all matches for the first round posted! Over the next few days the active matches will come to a close and we will have a complete view of which matches we will be seeing in the second round. It's gonna be fun

Once the final matches of Round 1 are closed I will be sending out PMs to all of our 32 participants thanking them for their efforts and advising the Round 2 participants on the details for the next round. We will be taking a few days off between the close of Round 1 and the start of Round 2 to let the dust settle and give the participants ample time to work on their strategies and write ups.

FYI: I am a little behind on updating the OP as I will need some help from a mod. I will try to get around to that before the start of Round 2!

Round 1
Group 7

[Poll-13] #16 Justin Lee vs #17 dougsmit (Round 1) CIT 2018
This is a fun match up of Roman bronzes featuring great values and interesting write ups. This is a can't miss if you haven't voted yet.

[Poll-14] #13 frankjg vs #20 Nicholas Molinari (Round 1) CIT 2018
Two Sicilian brothers, separated by circumstance for many years must do battle with one of the ultimate questions of the universe at stake: Who would win in a fight between a gorgon and a man-faced-bull? This is made for TV movie gold standard material here!

Group 8

[Poll-15] #9 Clavdivs vs #24 Pavlos (Round 1) CIT 2018
The battle of the all star new comers. Great coins, great write ups, great CTers. Another tournament highlight in a tournament filled with great matches!

[Poll-16] #6 Jwt708 vs #27 Severus Alexander (Round 1) CIT 2018
Rambo vs tetrarch reject... just read the thread and you'll understand. A great battle with some absolutely fascinating write ups and two cool coin-friends. No matter who wins, we all win.

 

As the results roll in, I find it interesting that winning entries can win only one of the three categories by doing so well in that one that they erased the effect of the other two. At the end, it might be interesting to run a chart on the number of winners that won all three, just two or only one category.
As expected, not all races drew the same number of voters so some 'losers' got more votes than other 'winners'. It might be interesting to see if the races that drew the most activity were the closest or the ones that more people found obvious.

We often hear that you can prove anything with statistics improperly manipulated. The trick is to learn something of note from the statistics without resorting to manipulation designed to prove the result selected ahead of time.

 

You read my mind Doug. I have been keeping a great many statistics as you mention on a spreadsheet (as we engineers tend to do). Once all matches close I will collate the results and post them to this thread.

It might prove helpful for those considering thier play in Round 2.