Alexandrian Drachms of Antoninus Pius

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Orange Julius, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. Orange Julius

    Orange Julius Well-Known Member

    Hi all,
    I recently received this drachm of Antoninus Pius with Nilus on the reverse and am trying to determine the year... can anyone make anything of the lettering on the top left-ish of the reverse?

    I was hoping someone may look into Emmett to see what years the Nilus reverse was used.

    Also... post your drachms (or other coins) of Antoninus Pius from Alexandria!
    AntoninusPiusDrachm.JPG
     
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  3. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

  4. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Well-Known Member

    Nice one with great eye apeall Orange Julius, I only have one Drachm of his. 1000-30-106.jpg
    Egypt, Alexandria. Antoninus Pius. AD 138-161. Æ Drachm 34.7 mm. 23.80 gm. Dated RY 12 (AD 148/9). Obv: Laureate, draped, and cuirassed bust right. Rev: Isis Pharia standing right, holding sistrum and billowing sail with “S.” (or serpent) on sail; Pharos (lighthouse) of Alexandria to right, L ΔωΔ KAT OV (date) around. Köln 1605; Dattari (Savio) 2677-8; K&G 35.436. Emmett 1592.
     
  5. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    Antoninus Pius. 138-168 AD. Alexandria Harbor Scene. Alexandria, Egypt; dated 154/155 AD (year 18). Æ drachm (32 MM). Obv: Bust of Antoninus Pius, l. Rev: Isis Euploia standing facing, head left, three grain ears upward in right hand, reversed rudder in left; to her l., prow of galley with billowing sail, r., behind her, another similar galley to l. (neither visible in Emmett specimen); Euthenia reclining r. to her l and river-god Nilus holding rudder, reclining left on the right at her feet. Date “L – IH” across upper fields.

    Reverse like Emmett 1589; Milne 2290 variant; BMC 1173 variant; Dattari 2899, but obverse bust left. Traces of drapery on obverse bust, so Dattari-Savio 8776. Probably from the same obverse die. As such, the second known variety.
    AntPiusAlexHarbor2.jpg
     
  6. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Very nice, OJ! That coin has a lot of appeal.

    Nilus was a popular subject on A-Pi drachms. There are 17 separate types of Nilus reverses issued under him (Emmett 1614-1630)! Bust, seated, reclining, with or without various critters and accoutrements.

    Justin nailed the reverse legend (regnal year 13, more fully spelled), plus Iς (16) which is the ideal flood stage for the Nile. The reverse is basically asking Nilus to flood the Nile to 16 cubits :).

    On your coin Nilus is reclining left, holding a cornucopia from which a genius emerges and is crowning Nilus, crocodile below.

    It is Emmett 1621. Years of issue with his rarity rating in parentheses:

    4 (5)
    7 (4)
    8 (1)
    9 (1)
    11 (5)
    13 (1)
    16 (5)
    17 (4)
    20 (1)
    21 (4)

    These rarity ratings don't necessarily reflect the marketplace. Sometimes a book-rare coin will be easy to find at auction or in fixed price stores, and sometimes a book-common coin is difficult to find.

    Heh. @zumbly and I split a lot of 80 mostly low-end examples a couple of years ago and I already had a bunch so be careful what you ask for :D.

    Here are some of my better (relatively speaking!) or more interesting A-Pi drachms:

    [​IMG]
    EGYPT, Alexandria. Antoninus Pius
    AE drachm, uncertain regnal year
    Obv: laureate bust right
    Rev: Bust of Zeus Ammon right; L I (date uncertain)
    Ref: Dattari-Savio pl. 153 #8807 (this coin); Emmett 1700.10, R5 (but I'm skeptical of this date)
    Ex Robert L. Grover Collection of Roman-Egyptian Coinage, previously held by the Art Institute of Chicago
    Ex Dattari Collection (Giovanni Dattari, 1853-1923)


    [​IMG]
    EGYPT, Alexandria. Antoninus Pius
    Regnal year 17
    AE drachm, 33mm
    Obv: laureate bust right
    Rev: Serapis-Agathodaemon standing erect right
    Ref: Dattari 2829; Emmett 1678.17
    Ex Robert L. Grover Collection of Roman Egyptian Coinage, previously held by the Art Institute of Chicago (1982.1988, G.781)

    [​IMG]
    EGYPT, Alexandria. Antoninus Pius
    year 14, CE 150/1
    AE drachm, 34 mm, 28.8 gm
    Obv: Laureate bust of Antoninus Pius left
    Rev: Triptolemos driving biga of winged serpents right; L IΔ above
    Ref: Emmett 1683.14

    [​IMG]
    EGYPT, Alexandria. Antoninus Pius
    year 5, CE 141/2
    AE drachm, 20 gm
    Obv: Laureate draped bust of Antoninus Pius right
    Rev: Radiate and draped bust of Serapis-Pantheos (Serapis-Zeus-Ammon-Helios-Poseidon-Nilus) right, wearing calathus and horn of Ammon; trident and cornucopia behind; L-Є in right field
    Ref: Emmett 1676.5, R1
     
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  7. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Here's another :D (I like yours just a liiiiiiiiittle bit better :D)

    [​IMG]

    I have bookends of this type :D

    [​IMG]
    EGYPT. Alexandria. Antoninus Pius
    AE drachm; 31 mm, 16.76 gm
    Regnal year 18 (154/5 CE)-- probable date
    Obv: [ΑVΤ Κ Τ ΑΙΛ ΑΔΡ ΑΝΤωΝΙΝΟС СЄΒ ЄVC]; laureate bust right
    Rev: The Harbor of Alexandria: Isis Euploia standing left, holding grain ears and rudder; to left, prow above Euthenia seated right, propping herself up on hand; to right, stern above Nilus reclining left, holding rudder; L I/H (date) to upper right.
    Ref: Emmett 1589.18; RPC IV online 13846; Dattari (Savio) 8772; K&G 35.661.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  8. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    My drachms are pretty ordinary:
    pa0250bb0458.jpg pa0253bb3135.jpg pa0265bb2912.jpg pa0270bb1342.jpg pa0275fd2426.jpg

    But my holey diobol and better obol and special to me.
    pa0262fd3472.jpg pa0280bb2299.jpg

    Pius drachms include some of the most interesting types of all ancient coins that are in demand even in the lowest grades. I will never have those but I love to see them when the rest of you post them.
     
  9. brandon spiegel

    brandon spiegel Brandon Spiegel

  10. SeptimusT

    SeptimusT Well-Known Member

    Some cool coins here! I'm jealous of the harbor scene ones, and the Zodiac series that I expect someone around here must have an example of. Always love to see these.

    I posted most of these just a couple days ago, but I won't turn down the chance to do so again...

    Pius Isis Drachm copy.png
    Antoninus Pius drachm
    Obverse:
    Laureate bust right
    Reverse: Isis, crowned with disk, horns and plumes right, holding Harpocrates, crowned and holding lotus flower.
    Struck at Alexandria in 146/7, 34mm, 27.1g, Dattari 2648, RPC 13597 (temp)

    Hermanubis copy.jpg
    Drachm of Antoninus Pius
    Obverse:
    Laureate bust right
    Reverse: Hermanubis standing left, head right, wearing kalathos, holding caduceus downwards and palm leaf.
    Struck at Alexandria in 141-2, 34mm, 25.45g, Dattari 2627, RPC 13496 (temp)

    Piustemp.png
    Drachm of Antoninus Pius
    Obverse:
    Laureate bust right, wearing paludamentum
    Reverse: Monumental altar or flat-roofed temple with six columns, garlanded, uncertain figures at each end; above, burning pile; acroteria in form of aphlasta
    Struck at Alexandria in 153-4, 34mm, 24.5g, Dattari 3011, RPC 13819 (temp)
     
  11. Nvb

    Nvb Well-Known Member

    Here is one I've never posted before on CT forums

    EGYPT, Alexandria. Antoninus Pius. AD 138-161. Æ Drachm, 35mm, Dated RY 8 (AD 144/5).

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Laureate head right / Nike advancing right, holding trophy in both hands; RY date to left.
    Köln -; Dattari (Savio) 8594; K&G -.
     
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  12. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    Here's mine, we discussed it before. How come that these drachms are always in mediocre condition at the best?

    3131 A Pius ct.jpg
     
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  13. SeptimusT

    SeptimusT Well-Known Member

    From the research I’ve done, a lot of the ones found aren’t identifiable at all. I think it’s probably a combination of the fact that they were not extremely detailed to begin with, circulated for a very long time, and were often buried in wet, acidic conditions. Big coins clanking together will wear faster, especially when they are used for centuries (hoards of Diocletian tetradrachms have shown up alongside drachms of Hadrian, for instance).
     
  14. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Oh! I have a couple :). I have no illusion of being able to complete the set. Too expensive and there are too many other interesting coins calling!

    [​IMG]
    EGYPT, Alexandria. Antoninus Pius
    year 8, 144/5 CE
    AE drachm, 33 mm, 22.9 gm, Zodiac series, "Venus in Taurus"
    Obv: Laureate draped bust of Antoninus Pius right
    Rev: bull butting left; above, diademed and draped bust of Aphrodite left; star before her; L H (date) in exergue
    Ref: Emmett 1450.8

    I searched CT so I could copy and paste my Leo drachm but found I'd never posted it! I bought at least a couple of years ago :oops:.

    APi-Zodiac-Leo-RT.jpg
    EGYPT, Alexandria. Antoninus Pius
    year 8, 144/5 CE
    AE drachm, 32 mm, 22.43 gm, Zodiac series, Helios in Leo
    Obv: Laureate draped bust of Antoninus Pius right
    Rev: Helios (Sun) in Leo: Lion leaping right; above, radiate and draped bust of Helios and six-pointed star; [L H below]
    Ref: Köln 1495-6; Dattari (Savio) 2968; K&G 35.278; Emmett 1530.8
    Ex Thomas Bentley Cederlind

    A CNG blurb about A-Pi's Zodiac series:

    Alexandria saw an immense output of coinage during the eighth year of Antoninus Pius’s reign. The Zodiac drachms, mythological types, and a host of issues for the nomes appeared that year. One explanation for this activity centers on the celebration of the renewal of the Great Sothic cycle, the point when the star Sothis (Sirius) rises on the same point on the horizon as the sun. This cycle of 1461 years began early in the reign of Pius in AD 139, and apparently prompted a renewal in the ancient Egyptian religion, while the coin types also stressed the connections to the Greco-Roman Pantheon.

    I've read (or imagined??) it was due to the very long duration of circulation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  15. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I particularly like Nvb's Pius because of the way it compliments my Aurelius Caesar. Both coins are LH and Aurelius was using Pius dating so they may have been stuck the same day. Unfortunately they do not share the reverse die. That would be too much luck.
    pa0310b02372lg.jpg

    While I agree with the above, I propose one more factor that I really believe had some effect on the matter. I call it the Dattari effect. All collectors of these coins are aware of the great collection formed by Giovanni Dattari at the beginning of the 20th century. Dattari did not buy rare coins in great shape from coin dealers. He lived in Egypt and let it be known that he paid more for the old coins than did the scrap metal dealers. If you were an Egyptian and found coins, you knew where to take them. We see his best ones in his books but he had a warehouse(?) full of things that ranged from mint state to about poor. By assigning a value to everything, he was able to record what was made much more accurately than some might have done if they refused to buy them all.

    There has always been an attitude among collectors of Alexandrian bronzes that a poor coin is better than no coin at all. I credit Dattari for the way he gathered material and could look past the corrosion to catalog everything without ignoring/melting the ugly ones. You could not do such a complete study working only from auction records and museum collections.

    When I was first in the hobby, I met a few collectors who had purchased Roman denarii for the weight of silver and many of their coins were very nice. Today we see many worn denarii of Otho. Where are the worn slick denarii of the Flavian and Antonine period? Where are the kilogram lots of slick Trajans at a bit over spot? How long ago was the last ancient coin melted as scrap? (Since you started reading this???) Were Roman coins melted during the Twentieth Century when the price of metal and the demand for lesser grade coins made it more profitable? Were the Alexandrian coins more well circulated or did the ugliest half of the finds just escape melting more skillfully?
     
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  16. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Since they were mentioned, here’s the group pic I took of my 40 just before I sent them into the melter’s pot. :D

    977DFA8C-2287-4E90-8CB9-431C837F9381.jpeg

    J/k! Of course I saved the ex Dattaris before melting the rest. :smug:
     
  17. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Really nice examples all. The zodiac ones are killer - got to get one of those. My drachms at this point are limited to Hadrian, Marcus Aurelius (as Caesar), and Commodus. Although I spent four months in Egypt a few years back, I never saw a single coin for sale in the souks, shops, or anywhere else. My theory is that they are squirreled out of the country to coin dealers (or a dealer) known to some of us.

    Sure, you can find tons of fake antiquities in the markets of most every town but no coins. As an aside, tourist visas in Egypt are limited to 30 days. I spent 30 days in the country and took trips to Jordan and Istanbul sandwiched in between my time in Egypt. Whenever I came back into the country I got a new 30 day visa.

    After about 3 months the tourist authorities started following me around as I had a penchant for visiting remote areas and places off the beaten track, and the last thing the tourist police wanted was bad news for tourism. Places where I was not welcome included Assiut and Nag Hammadi, where a few hours after I checked into my dive fundu a policeman showed up and restricted me to my hotel until I kindly left. I did manage to walk around Nag Hammadi, enjoyed some shisha smokes and strong coffee, and talked to the locals before I got hemmed in.

    I also visited Siwa Oasis and the famous Oracle, which unfortunately did not speak to me. To be fair to the police, there had been a shooting of Copts by Islamists in Nag Hammadi and strong Islamist sentiments in Assiut. I was held up at gunpoint in Kom Ombo after dark, but I talked my way out of it and also handed over 100 Egyptian pounds for good measure. It was a fun trip! :)
     
  18. Orange Julius

    Orange Julius Well-Known Member

    Thanks @Justin Lee for the help!

    Wow @Ancient Aussie I love that one. I've always wanted a Lighthouse of Alexandrian coin. I've never been able to find one nice at the right price. They get pricey quick!

    Love the harbor scene @PeteB ! A gorgeous coin!

    Thanks for the info TIF! I really appreciate it, very helpful. I need to buy Emmett... I have Curtis but obviously no help with drachms.

    I do remember you and Z buying that lot and followed the thread with interest. It must have been hard do divide those up, so many cool coins. I suppose it's like picking a kickball team where you rotate and some of the good ones just have to go to the other team.

    Like you, I like anything with snakes and have this rough Marcus Aurelius as Caesar that I've shown before.
    MarcusAureliusDattari3210or3211.JPG
    @dougsmit I love the colors in your temple drachm and that bull diobol is very cool!

    Great coins @SeptimusT ! I love the warm red brown and details on that Isis coin!

    @Nvb That green patina with earthen highlights is really nice. I need to buy more of these drachms...

    @Pellinore Great eagle!

    @zumbly That's a great pile! Those must have been fun to sort through. Amazing!
     
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  19. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    My Pius drachm:

    x3903.jpg
    Antoninus Pius, 138 – 161 AD
    Æ Drachm, Egypt, Alexandria Mint, 36mm, 29.51 grams

    Obverse: AVT K T AIΛ ANTWINOC CEB EVC, Laureate and draped bust of Antoninus left.

    Reverse: L I Z, Coiled Serapis-Agathodaimon serpent rising right from ground, grain ears to either side.

    References:
    RPC Online15365 // Dattari8688 // Köln1721 // K&G35.594
     
  20. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    The coins in that photo seem better than the average Alexandrian drachm I see sold. They come much, much worse. wanted to bid in that sale but the lots that appealed to me most were coins so hideous that I talked myself out of bidding. I probably never will have a Geta or a couple others they had. Whether that is good or bad remains unclear.
     
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