Co-dependent Collecting

You can’t have too many A-Pi drachms… or can you?

One of the many fun things about collecting ancient coins in this modern era is discussing upcoming auctions with like-minded friends.

Zumbly and I do this frequently. It heightens enjoyment of the auction and also prevents both of us from chasing the same coins since we work out any conflicts ahead of time.

Then again, sometimes it just leads to trouble…

The day before a big auction

Z:
Gemini! Are you going after any of the lots? I was going to give it a miss without looking in detail at the catalog, but I received the hardcopy today and of course I started flipping through it. I'm now tempted by the low estimates of some of the Art Institute of Chicago lots/group lots .
[Looking at this dialogue in hindsight, it's obvious I was just looking for trouble... --Z]

T:
I'm so behind in coin browsing!

I'm going to browse the catalog now and will report back.

Z:
Lot of 79 bronze drachms and 1 bronze diobol of Antoninus Pius. g. (0h). . Virtually all attributed by BMC, many also by Dattari and/or Cologne. Includes three nome drachms, and many other coins with interesting or rare reverse types. Eleven of the coins are ex Dattari, ten of them (including the three nome drachms) being illustrated in Dattari-Savio, while the eleventh coin is stated to be ex Dattari, but is not illustrated in Dattari-Savio. Good-VF.

Even without the pics, they're making that sound like a tasty group!

T:
Maybe... but there are tons of super crappy coins in Dattari-Savio!

Z:
Yeah, definitely, from some of what we've already seen offered in Naville. But how far wrong can you go with nice big bronzes of A-Pi? And "G-VF" gives one the hope that at least some will not be the utter dregs.
[Ok, kids, the fact here is that "G-VF" can mean the mix is 95% 'G' and 5% 'VF'. TIF and I had both bought sub-par mystery mixed lots before, so I don't know who I was trying to fool here. --Z]

T:
True, and even crappy-condition BD-ridden ex-Dattaris sold for hundreds in Naville

[This is true, sadly. I guess I'm part of the "problem", sharing blame for rising prices of these coins which used to be rather inexpensive. --TIF]

Z:
I flipped cursorily through the other sections but I'm not looking for any big ticket coins. My failures to score any of the AK Collection A-Pi Alexandrian lots in the past Triton and no Dattari coins from Naville has me itching to try to win some here... sigh.

Z:
Hmm, can you talk me out of bidding on that 80-coin lot 464? It's getting late and I feel like just throwing a big bid at it with not even half a clue as to whether that's a strong or weak bid . Yes, it's a dumb idea.
[Internally, this translates to: "If TIF doesn't just outright tell me it's a dumb idea, I'm soooo going to bid on this lot. If it turns out wrong, I can blame her!" --Z]

T:
Hmm. That one is on my "consider" list
[Surely by now Z knows that half the lots in every auction end up on my "consider" list --TIF]

T:
I guess it would be too difficult to do and might lead to ruination of a friendship, but it is tempting to propose that we go in together on a large lot.
[Laying groundwork to absolve me of any responsibility if things go south --TIF]

Z:
It's a very tempting suggestion, actually! But yes, difficult to do... splitting the loot and deciding how to do so would be a project unto itself!
[Huh... ?? Shared purchase of a mystery mixed lot? Noooo... nooo nooo nooo. Bad idea on top of an originally bad idea with bad idea bits sprinkled on top! What are you thinking, TIF! --Z]

Day of the auction

[Regardless of what I said to TIF, I was still thinking I might bid on lot 464, but having had half a day to ruminate and come to my senses, I thought I'd just touch base with her again to make clear that I wasn't going to bid on the lot and also that bidding on it together was a no-go... --Z]

[^^ Tsk tsk, such duplicity! --TIF]

Z:
Actually, if you're still keen on 464 and are interested in splitting the risk, I think we could probably work out a creative system to divvy up the loot equitably should we win. Let me know!
[Ermmm... Doh! --Z]

T:
My feelings about the lot waver from moment to moment. Let me think about it and get back to you before the auction starts. It would be fun to sift through the lot but I'm afraid most of them would be tough to unload.

Then again, with ever-increasing collector restrictions, maybe having a load of crappy quality drachms isn't a bad thing?

Z:
I totally know what you mean. It is definitely a gamble, and it won't be a very small one pricewise, even if we buy it together. And like you say, many may be tough to unload and not really worth keeping at all. Tsk... Decisions! I think I will be game if you are and it'll still be fun to try for it nonetheless .

T:
I have to go in to work for several hours. Heading in now. Hope to be home in 5-6 hours. I'll be thinking about the A-Pi lot.

Meanwhile, why don't you work on a plan for the joint max bid, if we do this?
[Z came up with a detailed workable plan for equitable division of the coins, and we discussed a max bid. The lengthy messages are omitted here for brevity. --TIF]

T:
I bet the lot is full of dregs-- that's why it has so many coins compared to the other group lots.

Z:


Perhaps the 3 nomes and "many other" interesting and rare types mentioned is cause to be slightly more hopeful?

I probably have to get a bit more sleep if I'm going to be functional later. I'll be back on in an hour or two.

T:
HOUR OR TWO? Doesn't the auction start in less than 90 minutes? I guess the Roman Egyptian coins will be a few hours though. Okay. Go nap
[Z is 12 hours ahead of me, poor thing. The timing of most auctions sucks for him. --TIF]

Z:
Good luck on your lots! Are we going ahead with 464?
[Last chance to back out! --Z]

T:
Okay... looks like we might be a go?

I had a few days of horrible internet connectivity with it dropping every few minutes. It magically resolved, but occasionally my computer freezes and requires a reboot.

I have a second computer available but the screen is cracked so a good portion of the screen isn't accessible. It might work in a pinch and I'll have the live bidding up on it too just in case.

As the Roman Egypt section progresses we can take the temperature of the room and have a final discussion about how much to bid. Sound okay?

Auction has begun

T:
Wow, it's moving FAST.

Dang, I should have bid on the Punic tet, lot 22. It was on my watch list and went for a good price. I did click bid but someone beat me and I paused to decide whether to rebid and the lot closed! Sheesh, they should s l o w d o w n.

T:
Z... I'm getting cold feet about lot 464 after looking at CNG105's Alexandrians. There are many rarities and artistic coins. Septimius Severus, Annia Faustina (3!), etc.
I think I should not spend so much money on grade G-VF A-Pi drachms. Maybe a lesser maximum bid?

Z:
I'm good with the lower max limit.
[I was out of the house at the time and couldn't follow the auction, but in such cases, always trust a woman's instinct. --Z]

T:
Okay.

Alexandrian section has started

T:
Oh sure. Now the bidding picks up

T:
I bid one more increment than intended... Hope that's okay. It's ours

Z:
What! Oh, heh... cool... I thought we had lost it .

Exxxxxcellent!

...

So... was it exxxxxcellent? It was definitely fun and sharing the experience with Zumbly made it more enjoyable, but did we get a "deal"? No, not particularly. If we were dealers and needed to flip these for a big profit, we'd be in trouble. It was indeed full of "dregs", at least from a condition standpoint, but those dregs all have a good pedigree (10 are ex-Dattari; all are ex-Art Institute of Chicago) and there were enough rarities and interesting reverses to satisfy us.

Z and I had a good time and each ended up with a big pile of bronze coins-- Roman Egyptian coins that are becoming more difficult and more costly to acquire. I'd call the whole venture a modest success, or at least not an overt failure. Our friendship survived just fine. I'm not sure I could have gone through this with anyone but Zumbly

You can view the lot contents on this Google Docs spreadsheet: A-Pi Madness. No Google sign-in is required to view it.

Here are a few of the better coins from that lot. I'm sure Z will chime in shortly with a few of his picks. As always, feel free to post anything you think is relevant

...

We divided the ten Dattari pedigree coins first and I had the first draft pick. Despite there being coins of greater rarity among those ten, I love Zeus Ammon and chose this ragged coin (ragged but still probably of higher condition than the average coin in the lot ):

Zeus Ammon. Dattari-Savio plate coin.

The next coin is probably my favorite of the 40 because I'm actively seeking all permutations of Serapis and didn't have this one. I also love anepigraphic coins, although I guess since this coin used to have legends that doesn't really count

Serapis-Agathodaemon

Isis-Sothis! Low grade, but still desirable

 

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Ah, CoinTalk... bringing people with self-control problems and bad ideas together .

Honestly, I had a blast buying this lot with TIF and thereafter divvying up the coins (she did almost all the work - Thank You, TIF!).

I'm still working my way through my share of the coins, but here are a couple of my favorites so far...

ANTONINUS PIUS
AE Drachm. 23.18g, 35.2mm. EGYPT, Alexandria, RY 12 = AD 148/9. Emmett 1587.12; Dattari-Savio Pl. 160, 12289 (this coin); RPC Online 13646 (40 spec, this coin cited). O: Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right. R: L – ΔωΔƐΚ – ΑΤΟV, Temple with two columns and rounded pediment enclosing statue of Isis seated right, holding Harpokrates, a palm branch to their right.
Ex Robert L. Grover Collection of Roman-Egyptian Coinage, previously held by the Art Institute of Chicago (1981.475); Ex Dattari Collection (Giovanni Dattari, 1853-1923)

ANTONINUS PIUS
Rare. AE Drachm. 26.83g, 33.5mm. EGYPT, Alexandria, RY 5 = AD 141/2. Emmett 1628 (R3); Dattari 2776; RPC Online 14830 (8 spec). O: Laureate head right. R: Nilus seated right on rocks upon which a crocodile climbs, Alexandria-Euthenia wearing elephant-skin headdress standing left, holding corn ears and sistrum; [L Ɛ] in exergue.
Ex Robert L. Grover Collection of Roman-Egyptian Coinage, previously held by the Art Institute of Chicago (1981.413)

ANTONINUS PIUS
AE Drachm. 21.47g, 33.2mm. EGYPT, Alexandria, RY 14 = AD 150/1. Emmett 1683.14; Dattari 2904; RPC Online 13706 (16 spec). O: Laureate head right, traces of drapery on shoulder. R: Triptolemos, wearing elephant-head cap, holding seeds in chlamys, driving biga drawn by winged serpents, right; L ΙΔ in field.
Ex Robert L. Grover Collection of Roman-Egyptian Coinage, previously held by the Art Institute of Chicago (1982.2066)

 

Co-dependent criminality
Bonnie and Clyde
Co-dependent scientists
Watson and Crick
Co-dependent hoofsters
Fred and Ginger
Co-dependent comedians
Laurel and Hardy
Co-dependent singers
Donnie and Marie
Co-dependent ancient rulers
Marc Antony and Cleopatra
Co-dependent modern rulers
Juan and Eva Peron
Co-dependent collecting
TIF and Zumbly

 

LOL, HOLY COW, Guys! Big fun! Lotta work, were those notes and attributes AVAILABLE, or did you all create them in the spreadsheet???

Enjoy!

 

What an awesome experience and evidence of friendship and confidence !

Q

 

The coins all had Dattari-Savio (and sometimes other) attributions written on the flip inserts, but I made the spreadsheet so that Z and I could better assess and organize the coins. He was at a disadvantage since he couldn't examine them before choosing his half. I wanted to ensure he had a good feel for condition (I sure got tired of writing "crap condition, active corrosion" in the notes ). I did take provisional pictures of all of them and they weren't bad, so I think he had a good feel for each coin when it came time to pick.

 

WOW! Nice work! FUN!

 

This actually worked out really well. As can be seen from the spreadsheet, TIF was very thorough with her descriptions, and together with the pics, they helped a lot with my assessing the coins. That our coin-preferences are slightly different ensured that we were able to split the lot in a complementary fashion - I favoured the rare and interesting, and TIF favoured the rare and interesting as well as the beautiful... hey, wait a second... !

 

Great collaboration on a good lot! Some interesting pieces, tho not in my collecting area. I liked the snakes with wings.

I think Hollywood could make a great part two movie with them.....

 

I agree!! For some reason I'm much more tolerant of low condition in bronzes, especially these Egyptian drachms, especially when the wear is fairly even. My "purse piece" is such a drachm. They definitely look their age and clearly circulated for a long time .

 

What a hoot @TIF and @zumbly and great coins

 

Great collaboration!

The hoarder in me loves large lots. More is better! More is better!

I also really enjoy the mystery of figuring out what a coin is.

John

 

This was such a fun read, thanks for sharing!! And your spreadsheet @TIF was amazing, great attention to detail, you are so organized!

So nice to have coin friends.

 

Actually, I'll be pitching a reboot/threequel to the rebooted Clash of the Titans. It'll be called Clash of the Pythons.

 

Thanks!

Has anybody noticed that the second, snakey coin that TIF posted is special for the snake having Serapis's head? Now that's crazy cool! Probably the best coin in the whole lot.

 

[guffaw]

Wanna see the worse of the bunch? Small children and those with delicate constitutions should avert their eyes.



Look at the flip for #33 (below). I figure the coin was placed in this flip during processing for this auction-- so it hasn't been in it very long. Look at the quantity of weird gray/brown debris! That's some rapid deterioration.

I suspect these three coins were at some point in their lives treated with a strong chemical (alkaline?) and not neutralized, then coated with lacquer (many coins in this lot were lacquered). Over time, the metal broke down but not forming the usual "bronze disease" compounds. These three are not salvageable.

 

Nice collaboration you two. It seemed to work out very well for both.