Wow. PM prices decreasing dramatically.

One more thing, this statement is total rubbish. I am a 55 year old proud member of the baby boom generation. I can you I didn't receive a dime from an inheritance as is the case for most folks from my generation. It is just the opposite. Many of us had to help our parents out. We also don't think of that as a disadvantage. With no handouts, we had to learn to do it on our own. From what I see today, the folks who do get these handouts, they are actually the ones at a disadvantage since it kills motivation when you are getting freebies. JMHO

 

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PM's are having another down day, but not by much. I think silver came within a few cents of yesterday's close, so they may go higher soon.

 

Let's see... You don't have a CLUE as to my assets, my financial situation, my coins, or my PMs. NOT A CLUE. But you're eager to mock my conservative attitude, and you "feel" very strongly that we won't see the worst case. I hope you're right.

I'm satisfied with my diversification. Why don't you "get satisfied" too, and find someone else to preach to? If nothing else, go "generic," and encourage friends and neighbors to PREPARE in case we reach the tipping point. This is the buzzword of insurance salesmen, funeral directors, and scoutmasters.

Incidentally, there's no connection between hyperinflation and the upward transfer of wealth* in this country, particularly because we haven't had H-I yet. And no connection between predatory wealth-building and the price of PM's, either. The rich didn't make their money trading PM's. They made their bucks in unreported overseas income, corporate manipulations, bribery, cartels, tax evasion, lobbying, price-fixing, derivatives, and lately, in good old-fashioned salary and bonus bonanzas, often at the expense of shareholders.

I agree, this has little to do with precious metals; the KEY is preserving the buying power of what you have left after a tough decade, by whatever means lets you sleep at night, with less reliance on paper assets, while bolstering your privacy and security.

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*According to the Congressional Budget Office, between 1979 and 2007 incomes of the top 1% of Americans grew by an average of 275%. During the same time period, the 60% of Americans in the middle of the income scale saw their income rise by 40%. Since 1979 the average pre-tax income for the bottom 90% of households has decreased by $900, while that of the top 1% increased by over $700,000, as federal taxation became less progressive...

 

Hmm, you seem a bit sensitive. Now, I don't need a clue about you financial assets nor do I care. It is what you have been preaching about that I have an issue with. You make the statements about a "Silver Stacking" philosophy which I strongly disagree with and I make logical points showing a different point of view. What is the problem? Please go back an re-read, there was nothing there mocking you. Is it possible it seems like mocking because my arguments were stronger? Just saying...

I gotta tell you, if you do not want your ideas challenged, then please don't post here, because that is what we do. I certainly don't mind if you challenge my point of view.

 

Hey guys-
If we cannot sing Kumbayah together, can we at least argue deflation/inflation instead?
Don't like it when solid posters escalate towards acrimony (and I'll be the first to admit it's been me, too) and I really like reading both of your opinions on this theme.
Just saying.
:smile

 

I agree. I think its safe to say all of us here appreciate aspects of PM investing. Maybe WHY we appreciate it, or maybe our PERCENT of investments differ, but we have more in common than differences.

Reminds me of fights within families. They are so much alike that is why little differences can seem so huge.

I am not recommending singing Kumbayah or hugging it out like a bunch of hippies , but we should remember how similar we are to each other and try to remain calm and civil.

If I did or said anything to lead to hurt feelings here I apologize.

 

Sounds just fine by me....

Mike

 

Economic indicators are not looking good right now. The PR campaign to keep people away from metals and support continually devaluing fiat currency is in full effect. If you have the conviction to buy then don't worry about the gyrations. It's apparent that QE has to continue in spite of the rhetoric. Take these as buying opportunities, and always keep some dry powder on tap. The paper price may go down in the short term, but if you are in it for the long haul now is as good a time to buy as any. I have been buying incrementally since we got into $28 and am eyeing lower prices for larger purchases. Otherwise I will continue accumulating in small amounts for as long as real interest rates are negative.

 

I agree with much of what you write, but I don't think negative interest rates have anything to do with the pricing or trending of PMs. If and when interest rates turn positive, in spite of QE, that's the first whiff of overt inflation, suggesting it's time to accelerate the buying of PMs.

I believe I recall that a 1% rise in interest rates costs the Treasury over $700 billion a year for its bonds, notes, and bills. Even more unsustainable than the "new normal," that is.

 

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "the PR campaign to keep people away from metals" I see no such effort, in fact, just the opposite, I seem to be bombarded by TV ads touting the benefits of PM's. I see nothing about buying equities and bonds.

 

Yeah, I haven't come across much pr meant to steer folks clear of precious metals either.
I have come across quite a lot of propaganda meant to turn folks on to pms.

 

Yes, but you might want to take a look at who is doing the advertising and who they're targeting. I assure you they're not targeting people with big money in the markets. It's small fish going after smaller fish, and there is a difference.

 

Bearish indicators to note, summarizing key points from this article: http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1362489736.php

1) The volume of holding held to back shares in the SPDR Gold Trust{...} fell for the tenth straight session yesterday, first time this has happened since the GLD was launched in 2004.
2) current run of outflows {is} twice as long as the previous highest, the GLD bullion holdings fell for five straight sessions on two previous occasions – in October 2010 and May 2011.
3) On the New York Comex meantime speculative futures traders last month built up their biggest gold short position since 1999 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9fBPPiqNZo
4) the BullionVault Gold Investor Index fell to a five-month low at 54.4
5) "A strengthening Dollar, an improving macro[economic] outlook and lower inflation expectations would certainly drive gold lower," says Societe Generale.
6) "Between here and the $1635.48 December low, the gold price should continue to encounter resistance," says Commerzbank technical analyst Karen Jones. "Failure to hold over $1554.83 [however] will trigger losses to the $1522.48 December 2011 low."

I've been and remain short-term bearish; if we hit 1522 I believe we'll also see 1500 (April-July) but I have serious doubts we'll go below 1400 in 2013.
POG @ USD 1400 would be the time to consider reallocating into rather than just incrementally buying dips. Let Au get cheap: that's the opportunity not the fear.

 

I pray the Tea Party Patriots stand firm and force REAL Federal spending cuts (not just Defense). The economy will rebound and PM prices will return to non-Apocalyptic levels...(Au: $900, Ag: $18).

Dec 31st 2013: Au: $1375, Ag: $25

 

Not negative interest rates, negative real interest rates. The real interest rate is the interest rate minus the inflation rate. Interest rates can be positive but if inflation is higher than that then the real rate is still negative, and thus even with gaining interest on your money from the bank you are still losing to inflation in a negative real interest rate environment. In this case people will seek out a better return than sitting on their devaluing cash.

In a positive real interest rate environment it is desirable to hold cash that is earning you value that outpaces inflation, and so people will not seek out alternatives such as metals or stocks to the same degree.

As long as people are punished for saving their cash there will be demand for metals as a hedge, and as long as inflation is greater than interest rates anyone holding metals will be rewarded.

Also remember that QE was the direct result of interest rates hitting zero. When interest rates cannot be lowered then money must be printed to get below the zero line. With positive real interest rates people are rewarded for having money in the bank. With negative real interest rates people are punished by inflation from money printing.

They can raise interest as high as they want, but they cannot feasibly raise it higher than the inflation rate at this point, because raising interest rates at all would remove a substantial profit driver for the too big to fail banks which re-loan that near zero % (free) money to folks like us for 3-4% because we can't go directly to the Fed like they can. Without ZIRP (0 % interest rate policy) these banks would require bailouts, which would necessitate money printing, and thus any rise in interest rates would cause that much more inflation.

Some might say that banks could simply increase the % they are charging on the loans, but this would inhibit loan requests and impact their bottom line through lack of demand, because high interest loans are not as desirable for the customer.

Until the financial system is not dependent upon ZIRP for solvency there is no way that real interest rates can be positive.

I completely agree with you that any rise in interest rates would inundate us with even more unpayable debt, and so it is also not feasible for that reason.

Their goal is to extend the current system for as long as possible. We know that the debt/GDP ratio is not sustainable, and that median household income is stagnant in contrast to an ever increasing tax payer burden. Raising interest rates would accelerate the unwavering path we have embarked upon. Stopping QE would cause a mass exodus from mortgage backed securities (directly propped up), bonds (directly propped up), and stocks (the non-metal hedge against inflation) as the big players react to the prospect of no more free money and go into risk-off mode, pulling the plug at what would be perceived to be the top of the markets. This would necessitate more QE to get back to the new normal and stave off what 2008 was only a preview of.

This also extends the amount of time we have to continue to buy undervalued metals in preparation for their return to sound money which will be not because anyone wishes them to be, but because that will be the only way to restore stability after fiat currency runs its inevitable course.

 

I think that the price of PM's and everything goes up and down with the market. When it all goes south, as it inevitably will, cash will be king. They will try to prop it all up with more money printing, but when it goes belly up everything will tank. We are at an all time high on the Schlock Market, but the price of PM's is languishing. If they can succeed in holding the whole ponzi scheme up with money printing, then the price of PM's will go up as well. If not, it's all going down for a while.

 

I was looking to get involved in physical Silver, and I live in palm beach FL, and I was wondering if anyone has bought physical from these guys at GOWORTH.COM (worth asset management).. I am looking to get involved in the next 2 wks so was just looking to see if anyone has already gone thru these guys. There prices seem fair. Thanks, and sorry if I am posting in the wrong section. Please redirect me, Thank you.

 

I am now buying at least 1 american silver eagle or 1 silver maple leaf every pay check now. I think the price will go up. does everyone getting their tax refunds now effect the price at all ??? I think silver is an affordable medal. Gold is way to high for me even in the 10th oz fractionals. I will stick with silver.

 

Silver is tanking a bit today. It was up, but now it's down. It's going to be a while before it's time to buy again. I thought it was getting close, but now I'm not so sure...

 

I disagree, it's always time to buy... can't try to time it. I just picked up a couple silver proof quarter sets for a nice bit under today's current melt. Who knows if it'll be under or over tomorrow's melt price, but all I know is my stack is almost 2oz heavier today than it was yesterday. In 10 years from now I'm not gonna remember what melt was the day I paid for it, I'm just going to be happy to be staring at 1/4 more of a roll of silver quarters.