Why pay more for MS65 over 64?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Detecto92, Apr 8, 2012.

  1. Detecto92

    Detecto92 Well-Known Member

    With some coins, a Grade of MS63 can be much lower than MS65 in price.

    However with some coins, little difference can be seen with the naked eye.

    So why would people pay more for a MS65 coin over MS64 or 3?
     
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  3. Hunt1

    Hunt1 Active Member

    Why does 66 get more than 65?
     
  4. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    Is this a real question? The nicer the coin, the more valuable it is. the same concept applies to cars, antiques baseball cards....
     
  5. Hunt1

    Hunt1 Active Member

    I think he's looking for a theoretical answer...But there really is none.
     
  6. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    Well I guess if you are only in it for your own enjoyment, and don't mind a few tiny blemishes, a MS63 is fine. In most cases, you can buy two MS63s for the price of one MS65. But if you are into trading or selling, higher grade coins are IMO the way to go.
     
  7. Detecto92

    Detecto92 Well-Known Member

    I understand paying more money for coins with a largely noticeable difference in grade. I can see paying a lot more for an Au-50 2 cent piece over a good.

    There are cases where a coin in MS-63 may be worth as many as 2-5 times more than MS-60. $400 vs $2000

    Here is an MS-60 Seated Half.
    [​IMG]

    and here is a MS-63.

    [​IMG]

    Would you pay for more the MS-63? I would not. The pepper toning is distracting.

    But....the 1871 in MS-60 retails for $500 while the MS-63 Retails for $1100, almost twice as much.

    Would you pay twice as much for something that does not look as good? I certainly wouldn't.

    But my point is...if there is only a teeny, tiny difference in a grade to the naked eye, why pay so much more for it?
     

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  8. wgpjr

    wgpjr Collector

    Bragging rights.
     
  9. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    How can you compare an 1871 in MS60 to an 1872 in MS63?

    Chris
     
  10. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    Perhaps you can't tell the difference between an MS65 and MS64/3, but there are many people who can. Maybe a demonstration will help you.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I submit that the cheek on the MS64 is clean enough to warrant an MS65 grade, so why is it in an MS64 holder?

    But your point is well taken, if you can't appreciate the difference in quality, perhaps you should buy the cheaper coin. An MS64 classic commemorative for example.
     
  11. Detecto92

    Detecto92 Well-Known Member

    I can easily see the difference there, but I'm talking about cases where you cannot see the difference.

    Here is a MS61 Mercury dime.
    [​IMG]

    Here is an MS-63.

    [​IMG]

    The MS-61 has a cleaner, more whiter appearance, while the MS63 has a dull tone to it.

    While buying, I would ignore the grade, and instead go for the appearance.
     
  12. Kasia

    Kasia Got my learning hat on

    Actually, in many cases, the 65 is a better coin, condition wise, than a 64. But it depends on the coin. That is why you should learn to grade, so that you can buy the coin and not the other person's grade --- unless the person grading it show that they know the subtle differences. Also you give an example of a 61 you say is better than the 63. Have you seen both in hand? (To make that determination?) The reason I ask this is because grading involves looking at the coin in a light, and evaluating the entire coin. It is not done normally just on pictures. Some people can give a good idea of what a coin should grade based on really good pics of the coin, obverse and reverse, but that takes a lot of knowledge, as pictures can hide or not really show the entire reality.

    And yes, if I'm able to buy a 65 that is a good representation of that grade over a 64 which may have lesser appeal, and the money difference is good for me, I will do so. I will especially do so if the 65 is a near 66 as opposed to a technical 64 that looks like it might be a 63. If the coins are a high 64 and a marginal 65 I might not.
     
  13. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    To take the subjective opinion of a third party grader who assigns a particular number grade to a slab is folly. The assessment of grade finalizes with the purchase of the slab and the opinion of the purchaser.......buy the coin, not the slab. I've seen '64 coins that should have (IMO) been labeled higher and vice versa. When you pay '64 or '63 money for a '65 you maximize your purchasing in the form of saving earned. Likewise, if you purchase a higher grade number based on it's number alone you're many times doomed to regret disappointment.......
     
  14. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    If you want to understand grading then you need to remember some things.

    1) You can't grade a coin simply by looking at one side of the coin.
    2) You can't compare coins from the same series with different dates.
    3) The smaller the coin, the more impact surface marks have on the grade. You refer to a cleaner whiter appearance on the first coin. All that means is the 1920 was dipped. I don't view the 1920 as cleaner. The mark on the jaw is enough to give it a lower grade than the 1919.

    Honestly, given your current train of thought, you should consider collecting AU64's. That is right, AU64's.

    The secret to collecting key dates (The elusive AU64 slider)
     
  15. treehugger

    treehugger Well-Known Member

    I agree with you, Green. Especially, if you collect coins for pleasure as opposed to business. Buy what you like and not what someone else tells you to like. TPG graders are like the Pope -- neither are infallible even though they and others might think they are.
     
  16. LindeDad

    LindeDad His Walker.

    Some people really should just collect from their pocket change.:hail:
     
  17. AdamL

    AdamL Well-Known Member

    From your other posts in this thread, it sounds like you're saying "Why buy a 65 if you see a 64 or a 63 that you like better?" And the answer is, collect what you like :D And unless you're planning to buy and sell sight unseen, those numbers on the slabs don't matter much ;)
     
  18. Porsche2007

    Porsche2007 Senior Member

    For various reasons...but primarily for the same reason by which you're asking this on a forum and not on a monologic blog.
     
  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Detecto the biggest problem is that you don't realize or understand what the difference is between a 63, a 64 and a 65. Once you understand those differences, you won't need to ask this question.

    And I'm not trying to be a wise guy, I'm just telling you the truth.
     
  20. treehugger

    treehugger Well-Known Member

    For what it's worth, here is the differentiation from numismedia:




    MS 63 - This is the grade that many collectors feel is the most collectible in numismatics. Prices are typically reasonable compared to higher grades and the coin should have at least an average strike and eye appeal, with minimal distracting marks.
    MS 64 - This is the grade where prices in many series begin to increase dramatically. For this reason the coin will begin to show fewer marks and the strike will be the strongest yet. No primary distractions that will draw your eye. A near-gem coin with just a few tiny marks or weakness in strike to keep it from a higher grade.
    MS 65 - This is the gem category. Coin should be fully struck with eye appeal. Either brilliant or toned but there should not be any unsightly marks or color that negates eye appeal. Any marks should be very minor in appearance. Prices spread out even further.
     
  21. Hunt1

    Hunt1 Active Member

    Also, photograding books are important, as well as comprehending the text to the actual picture.
     
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