Why did I buy this ratty old coin?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Orfew, Jul 23, 2018.

  1. Orfew

    Orfew Supporter! Supporter

    My interest in ancient coins stems from my love of history. So when the opportunity came to own an interesting historical piece I opened my wallet. So why did I want this ratty old denarius? First of all it gives me a second Tiberius denarius and one I did not have. Second, the posts of all the enablers on here who posted their own “tribute pennies” got me interested in owning one. I am especially thinking of you @Deacon Ray . However, the most important reason is the connection of these coins to an important historical event. In this case it is the revolt of the Iceni against the Romans led by Boudica. Though the literature below says the hoard is only probably related to the revolt, that was enough for me. The thought that this hoard and therefore this coin may be related to such an important figure and such an important event meant that I really wanted one of these coins.They had a number of Iceni coins including 3 of the Norfolk God type. Unfortunately those were all sold before I noticed the sale. However, I am sure I will be happy with the one I chose.

    I have also ordered a copy of the British Numismatic Journal 86 2016 in which the hoard is published.

    This is my first coin from a known hoard. Please feel free to post your own hoard coins.

    From Numismatic News

    Britain’s “Celtic Coins,” a.k.a. Chris Rudd Ltd., have announced that on Monday, June 4, the firm will be offering for sale coins from the fabled Quidenham hoard via their website: www.celticcoins.com/. The posting is scheduled that morning for 9 a.m. local time.

    The hoard consists of 22 Roman silver denarii and 25 Icenian silver units discovered at Quidenham in Norfolk, 2014, by a metal detectorist. It is historically important in that it provides a further numismatic link with Queen Boudica’s rebellion against the Romans in 60-61 C.E. Like contemporary known hoards, it is likely it was concealed during the revolt.

    Among other pieces, it contains three examples of the so-called Tribute Penny, denarii of Emperor Tiberius, all minted at Lugdunum (Lyon) post-14 C.E. Full details of the coins can be found inThe British Numismatic Journal86, 2016.


    From Chris Rudd

    “In 2014 an important Treasure hoard of 22 Roman silver denarii and 25 Icenian silver units was unearthed at Quidenham, Norfolk. Probably related to Boudica’s revolt in AD 60-61 (Dr John Talbot pers.comm. 26.3.2018), this hoard contains some fascinating types and is offered exclusively to the clients of Chris Rudd. “

    “Nos. 19, 20, 21 are said to be the ‘Tribute Penny’ referred to by Jesus in his famous ‘render unto Caesar’ speech (St.Matthew 22.17-21). “


    Tiberius Quidenham.jpg
    Tiberius ‘Tribute Penny’.AD16-37. Silver denarius. 17mm. 3.48g.RCV 1763. Nr VF, bold head, clear Livia. Found Quidenham hoard, Coin #21 Norfolk, 2014.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
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  3. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    The pedigree definitely makes this coin very special! Congrats :)
    rrdenarius and Orfew like this.
  4. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 Well-Known Member

    Amazing. What a special piece.
    Orfew likes this.
  5. Sallent

    Sallent Well-Known Member

    Nothing wrong with ratty old Tiberius coins. I've got one myself, though sadly not from a known hoard like yours. Great find, and thanks for sharing it with us.

    tiberius 6.jpg
  6. Orfew

    Orfew Supporter! Supporter

    On another board someone posted the photo of my coin from the portable antiquities scheme. My coin is coin #21 from the hoard.

  7. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter Redditor Lucis Aeternae

    Great new coin. The provenance is well worth the price of admission alone!!!
    Orfew likes this.
  8. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Not only a desirable type but it also comes with an interesting personal history. What more can you ask for? Congrats!
    benhur767 and Orfew like this.
  9. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana Supporter

    Great catch, Orfew! That provenance is very neat thing to have.
    Orfew likes this.
  10. Nemo

    Nemo Well-Known Member

    Awesome pickup!
    Orfew likes this.
  11. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

    Very nice, would love to have it in my collection! My only hoard coin:

    Gallic Empire, Tetricus I, AD 270-273
    Æ Antoninianus, 19x17mm, 2.49g, 1h.
    Obv.: [IMP C] TETRICVS PF AVG; Radiate, cuirassed bust right.
    Rev.: HILARI[TAS]; Hilaritas standing left holding cornucopia and palm.

    Ex-Braithwell Hoard, 2002; Report #180 and there were 67 examples of this coin in the hoard
    rrdenarius, TIF, Marsyas Mike and 6 others like this.
  12. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Nice @Orfew ! Well done on that snare. Way-way cool on the pedigree! Fun bit of History that you captured!

    I do not have a Tiberius Tribute Penny, and nary a Hoard coin that I know of. However, I have Boudicca to battle your Evil Roman Tribute Penny! :)

    Celtic Britain Iceni Boudicca 61 CE 1.03g Celt Hd r Celtic horse galloping Scarce.JPG
    Celtic Britain Iceni Boudicca 61 CE 1.03g Celt Hd r Celtic horse galloping Scarce

    (I went back through my records: I had bid on 4 other items, and lost. Out of the 5 items that I bid, this one was by far the "lowest cost" item, but it is probably one of my more favorite wins!)
  13. Orfew

    Orfew Supporter! Supporter

    Thanks Brian. I really like that "Norfolk God" "boudica" type you have. Chris Rudd had three of those from the hoard but I was too late.
  14. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    I know YOU know you need to get one. Too bad you missed Rudd's. It is a cool part of History, and fits your collecting direction...

    ... She's calling you... Aaannndreeewwww... FIND me... You neeeeed me... :)

    (they ain't cheap, either..., but it was by FAR much cheaper than what I bid on 4 other coins in that Auction... If I would had won them all, I would have been stung pretty hard. :) )
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
    TheRed, Theodosius, TIF and 1 other person like this.
  15. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

  16. Deacon Ray

    Deacon Ray Supporter! Supporter

    A very distinguished coin and lineage! I often wonder about the extra history of our coins. Not just the textbook history but the discovery and ownership history—and when available—is also very interesting.
    Orfew likes this.
  17. Multatuli

    Multatuli Homo numismaticus Supporter

    Sometimes the story behind the coin is worth much more than the conservation. Very nice!
    Deacon Ray, Orfew and TIF like this.
  18. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander Blame my mother. Supporter

    Thanks so much for posting about this @Orfew. Your coin is so cool I decided I needed to get one of my own from the hoard. :) All of the Iceni coins are gone now (not just the Norfolk God coins), so I also picked up a Roman one, a type that I've been wanting ever since reading @zumbly's cool writeup about it.

    Stolen by Julius Caesar, then buried many years later for fear of Boudica, maybe? Who could resist, even for a hefty premium given the grade? Not me, that's for sure. :)

    Screen Shot 2018-07-25 at 10.10.21 PM.jpg
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
  19. RomanGreekCoin3

    RomanGreekCoin3 Active Member

  20. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & odd Moderator

    A Tribute penny with a known hoard provenance is desirable no matter what it looks like! Nicely done!

    (And while that one might be described as a little bit "ratty", it ain't bad at all! The detail is "all there", and I like it!)

    I don't own any ancients with published hoard pedigrees (did have one LRB from a British hoard, but gave it to the history podcaster Dan Carlin). However, I do have two (non-ancient) coins with hoard provenance, and one of them is my latest acquisition- from just yesterday. (I got it in a swap and am excited about it, so please excuse the inclusion of a US coin here.)

    Here are my two hoard pieces. I'd like to have a shipwreck-pedigreed piece again some time. And one day I will own an ancient with a John Quincy Adams pedigree, since I'm a descendant, and those are out there (and as of a few years ago, still reasonably affordable by working-class mortals).

    England: silver penny of King John, ca. 1213-1215, from the Gisors Hoard found in Normandy
    The Gisors (Eure) Hoard was discovered in Normandy, France in 1970 and consisted mostly of French and continental European coins, but also included 824 English pennies and 40 cut halfpennies. The hoard was likely deposited some time in the mid-13th century, after 1244, and weighed over 15 kilograms. It had been buried in a hemp sack and traces of that remained when it was unearthed.


    United States: copper large cent, Coronet type, 1818, from the Randall Hoard
    Randall Hoard was a large (5,000+ piece) hoard of Mint State 1816-1820-dated large cents reportedly discovered beneath a railroad platform in Georgia in 1869.

  21. Orfew

    Orfew Supporter! Supporter

    Thanks for posting these. I love the king John!
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