why dealers like to play with your coins?

that just tends to really make me mad when dealers do that...I tend to just say forget it I made a mistake coming here I see and walk out or blow up at them throwing out cold hard facts about how their offer is basically a ripoff! I get that its their business and there is a spread on buy/sell and that they have to live on it...but do they need to live only off me? I don't know of many jobs or ways to make money out there that you can have what happened in the original posting...offer of $20 and it's really worth $28...I can guarantee you that said dealer wouldn't sell said quarter set for $28...more like $30-34 or $35 or more now that silver is going back up...

 

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But those are the cold hard facts of selling PM. It gets worst if the market is dropping and dealers believe it will continue. This is the downside many never consider when they "invest" in PM. Yes, in a bull market generally like today you will have a spread, but that spread is better than you will have if the bull turns to a bear. In 1981-82 dealers were assuming the market would continue to decline, and there were not buyers lining up ready to take it off their hands, so the prices they were quoting were much worst than even a 20x face offer would be today.

Its not so easy making money with PM. There are significant costs to buy, and even more significant costs to sell, especially when the market turns bearish. Its not as easy as believing silver will go from $30 to $40. It may, but if you get bad deals when buying and selling you still may lose money.

Chris

 

The coins are 2010 silver ATB proof quarters. I bought a set of PR69 off ebay so I wanted to sell the one I got from the mint. Those are encapsulated in the original mint plastic holder so those dealers were holding the plastic holder not the coins. None of the them were looking at the coins + they all knew what I had because they were selling mint sets.

 

I get what your saying and your right on that part of it and will add both parties should make a gain from the transaction if possible...but my main problem are the dealers that look at you like your just easy money...

 

Originally Posted by Taxidermist
They attempt to lower coins value by leaving dirty oily fingerprints wherever they can, thus reducing the number of higher grade coins and making sure the coins they have become more valuable and rare. Average dealer can soil and stain up to 8800 coins/sets every year.
Are you serious

Read more: http://www.cointalk.com/t193297/#ixzz1aZywdAAv



There may be something to this. I just bought a "lot" of several proof sets. Two sets had been opened at one time and the cent fingerprinted. Just the cent and only on the obverse. The reverse looked like they could have been "gradable" items. So if those are ruined, that's just a few less proof sets for that year. Sounds stupid, but why else would someone who handles lots of coins not use gloves handling proofs ?

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Generally not ! It's been my experience that they are trying to maximize profits by low balling me. lol Of course, I am trying to get back by looking for a variety with an increased value they overlooked. Seems we watch each other with wary eyes ?

And you can not be too young to learn the art of negotiation.

 

It's a competition, just as much as sports.

 

Exactly, and the best negotiators know this and study it. Ever see the show "Hardcore Pawn"? This is about the clearest example I see on television of good negotiators and tactics. I see his son "watch" negotiations all of the time, since he knows his father is a better negotiator and can learn. All of them try to control the direction of the negotiation, try to get the other to reveal their thoughts before they have to, etc.

Negotiation really is both a learned skill and a talent. Since coin buying is a critical part of a dealer's business, I imagine they need to be skilled in this area.

Chris

 

I can totally see where you're coming from. It's easy to take it personally in that you see it as the dealer is trying to take advantage of you, and some dealers may. But from the perspective of the dealer, it may be what he thinks is a reasonable offer....because then he has the inventory he has to get rid of and sometimes dealers don't get rid of all their inventory in a good amount of time, or have to sell it at a loss. Dealer's can only operate based on what they think they can sell things for (as well as how fast they think they can sell it), and with the PM market, they have to base what the PM is at right now, it's historical value, and where they might be if it drops. So PM has to be based on a quick turnover. Nobody can afford to be in business with lots of silver and gold where the values are based on high spot, and the market turns bad. But some dealers try to also read the other person and if they think they can get an item at a lower price, they might offer that. And some dealers will do it out of habit (their negotiating tactic). Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.... And if it doesn't then the dealer is willing to let it go, which is his business.

Actually, the better thing to do IMO is to have a strategy instead of blowing up about them being a rip off. You might work on other exit strategies (like saying thanks, but no thanks....and leaving it at that or just saying you have a better offer with a local dealer at say 26 ---- sometimes people put in a lower bid and will up theirs if they see you are willing to negotiate --- and if not, you just have said no thanks).

One of my issues is that I had not dealt before in selling coins really, just other items. I recently had a coin (1878 CC Morgan) that was partially holed, which I think I picked up for 5 bucks about 20 years ago. I decided I didn't want it anymore, probably won't collect Morgans, and best thing since silver was way up to get it sold for melt. First dealer (at coin shop I went to) was not really interested and said maybe 20 dollars. I decided to keep it for a while. Next time I went in there he said 22, but he wasn't really interested. I then went on line here to ask about it, and was told that as a holed coin it was only really worth melt, but should get a premium (maybe 10$) for being a CC, which I had no idea of. I next went to another local store, and he offered 28x (his buying point), but then when I mentioned it should get a premium, he said to bring it in and he would consider another 5 dollars on it.
Before getting back there, I found a 1961 D Frankie in roll searching, and decided that I didn't want that one either (since it wasn't really good looking), so I went to a coin show, and as dealers were packing up I approached one. He said he'd give 25 for both, which I knew was a horrible trade, so I said thanks but no thanks, I had a dealer at home who would give me more. He made no attempt to re-negotiate so I walked on. At another dealer, I waited while he looked at this other guy's Morgans (about 10 of them) and readily dismissed buying those from the guy as too common, that he didn't need any more. But when that guy was gone, I asked him if he was willing to buy my two coins, and how much. He made a comment about me seeing the other guys coins, and I said yes, and stood there a minute. But he looked at the Morgan, and I said it was too bad that it had the hole, cause it was a CC. He agreed it was too bad, and as he was looking at it, I again said, yeah --- it's too bad that it has the hole, because if it didn't it would be worth about $120, and it was such a shame for a nice coin. He then offered to take in trade my two coins for 40 dollars worth of coins. I said yes (thinking if I could pick out one that was nice that fit in with my collection it would be worth it), and he had some large cents, but they were too much. I didn't want to put more cash into this trade. So I mentioned that I couldn't buy another of his large cents, as I had bought one from Charmy and already spent my budget on it. So as I'm looking, I see a couple nice Civil War Tokens for sale, and of course one is 29 dollars marked, and the other 45 dollars marked. I don't want to settle for just the 29 dollar one, and don't want to spend more to get the 45 dollar one. So as I'm looking I think he just wants to pack up because he offers me both for the deal. He seems to think it adds up to 60 dollars (which may have been more his price minus discounts) but the two add to 74 dollars, and are good enough for me to take the trade. (I'm looking at it more as can I sell those tokens down the line, at about or more than I could get for the Morgan and the Frankie, kind of as a dealer might. The answer for me was yes, and that's all it took for me to say yes. I think I have the advantage in that I'm willing to wait to see a profit. I also know that money-wise I only have 5.50 in this.)

Long story short, if you can find a dealer that wants to talk, seems interested past the first refusal or price negotiation, and you can both find something that you can settle on, it can be good. You may not get that the first time or even ten or twenty times you approach a dealer. I still don't know why he decided to trade for those, I know he can get melt for the Frankie easy, but maybe he wants to sell the other as a filler or knows others that are interested in that particular one. The only thing matters is that I got a dealer that sees he can somehow make a profit from his trade. I'm just glad I could connect with a decent deal. I figure if and when I sell the two CWT's then I may have the money I wanted in the first place, and in the meantime I'm enjoying those two tokens.

 

I have noticed one thing during this economic downturn. That is the dealers are having a tough time of it. I have purchased "lots" fo proof sete recently for about 45% of the original U S Mint selling price. Somebody is eating the loss. I think possibly, dealers NEED to sell something, just to keep the doors open or buy groceries. They can't pay much, because sales are flat.

 

Most dealers aren't that bright, they were trying to figure out what to offer? :rollling:

 

Hey ! I kinda disagree with that statement. Anyone who can buy something from the government for a set price and convince you to pay him more for it has to have something going on.

 

LOL! Yeah, that's a plus for them. But then, they did become dealers.

 

My guess is at least one of them was checking your temperment. The bottom line is they're dealers and they buy that stuff all the time for below spot so for the most part they were being real with you. I suggest you be prepared next time. I never sell to a dealer, unless I absolutely have to. Sell to collectors, not dealers. Just my 2 cnts.