When to clean coins????

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Chip Kirkpatrick, May 24, 2019.

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  1. Chip Kirkpatrick

    Chip Kirkpatrick Well-Known Member

    Ok I know it is generally considered to be a Cardinal Sin to clean coins, but when is it permitted?

    I do metal detecting as a hobby and occasionally I find coins that are totally unidentifiable because of years or decades or even centuries of subterranean existence.

    Since I do not sell my finds, I want to enjoy them and knowing what they are and hopefully their age, I am willing to venture forth and use a toothpick or mild abrasive on them.

    Three years ago I found a 1783 Georgius Triumphos. Initially I thought it was a slug or a blank but I was able, after a little cleaning, see some lettering along the rim. After consulting some very knowledgeable people were able to identify it.

    Otherwise, I’d have recycled it. 00212738-3665-4059-8262-3AEC8372A7FD.jpeg
     
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  3. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    Well... It's a powderkeg subject, but I have my own feelings about this. Now I been collecting almost fifty years and have never once cleaned or altered a collectible coin. However...... I rather feel the current feeling regarding cleaning coins is maybe just a bit overly rigid. If we are talking a high grade coin, absolutely no cleaning should be warranted. Ever.... A while back we had a lady on here that inherited a batch of low grade Mercury's from her grandfather who was a heavy smoker. They were yellowed from years of nicotine and smelled like an ashtray. She couldn't enjoy them like that. Personally, I see no problem washing away nicotine from a batch of low grade Mercury's with a little dish soap bath. Others will be appalled by that. So be it.... Long and short is this. The coins are yours. Personally I am going to clean away centuries of goo from what may potentially be a spectacular find. I would sure do that before I sent it to the junk heap!
     
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  4. alurid

    alurid Well-Known Member

  5. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    I have been detecting for 9 years now. I have founds Thousands of coins. All cleaned gently with water.. That's all!
    20171223_103202-1.jpg
     
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  6. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Tell your dog I said hi!

    What does the lil' birdy say?
     
  7. atcarroll

    atcarroll Well-Known Member

    I think if you're finding them with a metal detector and digging them up in unidentifiable condition, treat them like ancients, rather than more recent coinage. The knowledgeable folks on the ancient part of the forum probably have many helpful tips regarding cleaning.
     
  8. Maxfli

    Maxfli Well-Known Member

    Only by the clueless. There are many instances when it's in the best interest of a coin to clean it. It all depends on how one defines cleaning, and how one goes about achieving it. Proper cleaning, good. Improper cleaning, bad. There are many threads on the subject here.
     
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  9. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    Ancient coins can be cleaned....in fact, most are cleaned. No one would think it bad if I decided to clean this coin tomorrow...

    Victoriatus.jpeg

    But I just can't bring myself to remove some of the 2,200 year old soil and grime that still clings to most of this coin. Once it's all shinny, it will never be the same. You can't just put 2 millennia of southern Italian soil back on it ever again.

    Besides, the southern Italian soil makes me think of the men who last held this coin in antiquity....the soldiers who fought against Hannibal around 209-208 BCE.

    fieldofgloryriseofrome.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
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  10. Chip Kirkpatrick

    Chip Kirkpatrick Well-Known Member

    The “Little Birdie”? My “Cardinal Sin”?

    That is Roscoe. I found him last year when he was maybe 3 days old. Couldn’t find his nest nor parents so I reluctantly took him home where I expected him to die within 2 days. But he didn’t.

    I released him nearly a dozen times but he kept coming back. After a close call with a snake, hawk and a cat, we decided he could stay. We have a huge sunroom which became his. I posted daily stories on him on Facebook and one of his many fans gave him a massive flight cage that I opened in the morning and closed at night.

    Smart bird. He “housebroke” himself and flew into the cage to relieve himself. He could solve simple puzzles.

    He had his own Christmas tree and received more cards than we did. He had friends on 3 continents. Hundreds.

    Well it seems sharing on FB is not a good idea. Somebody complained to the Florida Wildlife Commission and I was informed they were confiscating him for release. The fact that had been done didn’t matter. But people wanted to protest. They wanted to raise money for me and to hide him. But I was facing 5 years in prison and a $15,000 fine and eventually I would lose. One of his fans was the wife of a Senator and he tried to help. But he was taken and released in the middle of the winter.

    5 hours later the head of the FWC called me and apologized. He was also looking for options but was unaware his man was moving so fast.

    But I’m sure he would tell me to clean. Carefully.

    I miss him. 8BB74506-FD53-44A4-BFB9-486DBAF09D8B.jpeg
     
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  11. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    Cleaning?

    It all depends. For instance here with the response of my 1876 Trade Dollar
    https://www.cointalk.com/threads/1876-trade-dollar-get-it-cleaned.276689/

    It depends upon *your* value of [ value is either financially and/or emotionally ]
    (a) the existing coin
    (b) the hard cost of swapping it out
    (c) the soft cost of doing anything with it
    (d) you expertise at real numismatic level cleaning.

    For instance, as Paddyman has above that he cleans stuff he finds.

    For really gunky stuff, about once a year I pull out some spare acid and clean my coins bulk. Then neutralize, wash, etc and use them as money.

    of course, a bulk acid wash may, depending upon your point of view, make them worse. As copper gets "washed" onto the other coins in varying degrees. Oh well. At least the "crude" is less than what it was. And after all, these coins are for commerce not for collecting right ?
     
  12. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    When they have foreign material on them which if not removed will eventually lead to further damage.
     
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  13. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Tell your dog I said hi!

    Great story! Cardinals are my favorite songbird.
     
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  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Quite true.

    But I think it should be pointed out that Chip's comment is just another single example of thousands of others just like it where they used the word clean, cleaned, or cleaning - when that isn't what they mean at all. What they really mean is harshly or improperly clean, cleaned, cleaning - (the words harshly and improperly are interchangeable).

    Yes, there are some individuals who believe that. But, knowledgeable people don't believe it and never have believed it. Cleaning coins, in the correct ways, is and always has been perfectly acceptable, and even strongly encouraged in many cases. And that's where this next question comes in.

    As Maxfli said above - "There are many instances when it's in the best interest of a coin to clean it". But that is not the only time that cleaning coins is permitted. It is permitted to clean any coin, at any time. In point of fact 80% or more of all coins have been cleaned, at least once in their lifetimes, and yes that includes all those that have been slabbed by the TPGs. And yes that also includes all the coins in the collections of everybody on the this forum - but they may not be aware that their coins have been cleaned.

    The key, of course, to what I just said above is that the cleaning be done properly, correctly, in such a way that no harm is done to the coin. And there are four (4) basic ways that this can be done. They are -
    1 - distilled water
    2 - acetone
    3- xylene
    4 - coin dip

    There are a couple of other exceptions like alcohol (92% alcohol not rubbing alcohol) that can be used, but it's pretty rare that one of the others won't do a better job. And it must always be understood that none of the four is always the appropriate choice to use for each one will remove things the others won't. And there are some cases where more than one is needed to do the job properly. And there is a proper way, and improper ways, to use each one. So knowledge is necessary and care must always be taken. There is a long list of dos and don'ts.
     
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  15. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    Some folks these days. I am trying to convince myself that is a happy ending. But I rather believe your Cardinal Sin was happy as a songbird when he was with you.
     
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  16. SmokinJoe

    SmokinJoe Well-Known Member

    Chip, how could they do that? I mean, it can't be illegal to own a bird as a pet in Florida? Can it? 5 years in prison and a $1500 fine?...??....For owning a bird...
    Huummm....Something doesn't smell right...
     
  17. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    That's absolutely disgusting that they decided to do that and I hope you take your story to the media and pursue any and all legal remedies against them. At the very least that person should be fired
     
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  18. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Allow me to pick a nit...if you are not referring to rubbing alcohol, what alcohol are you referring to? Rubbing alcohol (isopropyl alcohol or 2-propanol) is sold in 50%, 70% and 91% versions while the other commonly available alcohol (ethanol) is sold as 40 or 50% (vodka) or as 95% (PGA).
     
  19. Dimedude2

    Dimedude2 Member

    I like to use Brighto as it takes the paint off - makes old bodies new.
     
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  20. SmokinJoe

    SmokinJoe Well-Known Member

    Chip I truly hope you will look into baseball21 's suggestion and do not let them get away with this.....This is truly beyond belief
     
  21. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    Nobody will get fired over this they are just doing there job according to the law. In Arizona, wildlife is owned by the state. What they would rather folks do is let nature take its course. MOST times the mother is close by and just waiting for the human to leave the area. In the case of birds, thousands fall out of their nests each year prior to fledging and many times the parents can continue to care for them; but alas survival of the fittest and a lot don't.
     
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