What type of bullion do you buy?

Well basically you either have a PF69 or PF70, very uncommon to have anything lower.
No one who isn't rich would pay that kind of premium, I'm saying if you do have one raw, get it in for grading, and boom, your coin is worth more.

 

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Well, I just read the entire thread, and I can't figure out if it is a spoof or not.

I would just add that a couple of years ago I purchased a couple of ASEs graded MS64. They were priced below melt value, probably because of the grade that made them "junk silver" to collectors. I don't think there is anything wrong with buying graded bullion as long as the prices paid are only a couple of dollars higher than the same coin without the grade. The plastic holder and authentication are worth something. But you aren't going to turn a $15 coin into a $40 coin by encasing it in plastic.

 

No, not the coin itself, but as long as it is in that plastic...

 

How much would you pay for an empty plastic holder?

I'm sure there is a subset of collectors who value the holder more than the coin. If you sell your collection to them fast enough, maybe you'll come out okay. Just keep in mind that every day you hold them is one day closer to the end of the graded bullion fad. Remember, a highly graded Morgan dollar has value because of its scarcity at that grade. Bullion coins will never be scarce for the grade, and eventually that will be reflected in the price.

 

Yes cloudy, I think you are on to something, the OP seems to be smoking the plastic fumes or something.

 

Well, I and many other collectors buy what we like, I happen to like graded bullion, as do many other collectors

 

That's pretty much the sentiment of most who post here - if you like collecting something that is fine. And most would hope you get maximum pleasure from whatever collecting "niche" interests you.

However the main theme here seems to have become "investment" and potential for profit.
I tend to agree with those who have stated that graded bullion is a marketing ploy, promoted by big sellers and TPGs.

Whereas I think SAEs are attractive and have been collecting MS 69s for a while, I am selling my three MS69 (all with "Burnished" W, 20th anniversary, and Millenium Set issues) sets (to a dealer) on Friday.
I sincerely believe that the graded SAE market bubble will not last, and I'm getting out now, as I have come to believe that to continue these sets will be throwing good money after bad - investmentwise.
I also previously viewed these strictly as an investment, believing they would gain value.

I will still continue collecting raw ASEs, and receive a lot of enjoyment out of doing so, and carefully storing them so they retain their superb appearance - because I enjoy doing it. The benefit/liability of silver price moving up/down has no bearing on my collecting them. I do it for enjoyment - any gain in value is a "perk".

Again, no offense intended at all - strictly looking at the investment characteristic of graded bullion, which has become the main topic of this thread.
Others have their opinions and opinions will always vary.
As a matter of fact, I have learned quite a bit over the years by listening to and weighing the opinions of others, while always respecting their right to an opinion whether those opinions agreed with mine or did not.

If graded SAEs are what you enjoy collecting, I encourage it. But strictly for investment? I would have to advise against it, as my action in selling my graded sets attests. It wouldn't be truthful to offer an opinion contrary to my own actions.

JMHO, offered in sincere comradery. :high5:

 

Thanks... It would have been nice to have you post the first reply.

 

Would you slab these any of these? They are Bullion...


I really like these... I've got a few myself in Tubes like those...

 

If you had phrased your initial post differently, you probably would have gotten the other responses you desired. Problem is you spoke of numismatic things as bullion, and bullion things as numismatics.

BTW, long term investment, I wouldn't trust the MS69 Bullion, but as stated if that is what you want to collect, it makes for a very nice looking set.

The 69's are basically rejects from the shows sending in thousands hoping for a couple of 70's. Great looking coins for sure though, but not bullion. You also referred to slabbed Morgans as bullion if I recall correctly. Bullion is Bullion. If it's more than it's intrinsic worth, it's not really bullion any more. Such as the 95w SAE. That simply isn't considered bullion. And I also would love to have one slabbed as MS70, for sure.

--
dw

 

Your welcome,tmoney.

Remember that it's very easy to misinterperet emotion from written words in a forum, as we're not speaking face to face. It's human nature to do this. Be assured that most here only want to exchange opinions and be friendly and helpful to each other. Also remember that a healthy argument isn't a fight or bad thing - just two different views. Usually resulting in benefit for both sides as long as respect is maintained. :thumb:

The bottom line as to my opinion is this:
While ASEs are tchnically bullion coins, they are monetized ($1 face) and they are produced by the US Mint with laws mandating how and when they are produced. So this has and will result in some issues being scarcer and rising in value to collectors. As long as there are collectors for them this will hold true. Due to this, directly comparing them with silver rounds - which can be produced any time, in any amount, by anyone with the ability to do so, is really not correct. Kinda like comparing raisins to grapes.
That being said, and considering that these never circulate - they are invested in as silver bullion or collected as U.S. Mint issued coins, they all are kept in mint state. Any issue that is scarce will rise in value, as long as there are collectors to collect them. The fact that it is in a MS69 slab really does not affect it's value because pretty much all of them are at least MS69 due to superior production techniques and non circulation.
If you buy raw ones, store them carefully, and one becomes a rarer issue you can always have it graded with confidence it will get a MS69 and possibly a MS70, in which case you may get to cash in on the premium for being graded should you decide to sell it. But paying that premium for each one you buy because it is slabbed MS69 will more than offset any gain you may get from that premium on one or two in the series that do become scarcer issues.
Again - JMHO

 

I didn't refer to morgans as bullion, that is stupid. Morgans are not, and will not ever be bullion coins, they are collector coins, and a very fun thing to collect, I only have tow both in NGC MS63.

 

Coinbuff, you have helped me... That does make sense, buying them raw, then getting it graded in hopes of a 70, but on the other hand the price to get it graded, plus the cost of the ase, would be the same premium your paying for the MS69. I wouldn't buy it raw, unless it was a KEY, then I'd get it graded, and if it came back 70, I'd sell!

 

.999 Silver bars and rounds. Thats all I am interested in for bullion. I jsut keep it simple. Plus I like to buy Junk 90% silver as well.

 

for slabbed ms69 or ms 70 modern bullion related silver round, am eagle or commmerative. it is so common to see ms69 or ms70. i should said so many of these. i see those slabbed coins will go way down in prices soon. the raw coin will common a better deal. people will start to open those sealed plastic case.

 

They are so hard to open!!! LOL
I'm not taking mine out anytime soon!

 

Depending on the TPG, some of them can be opened with your thumbnail, I kid you not. I can even think of one TPG that has it's holders coming apart without encouragement.

 

NGC are hard to open... I have not tried, just what I ahve heard... PCGS, I have no clue... ANACS You can open

 

I thoguth the ANACS new holders are sonic welded. That isn't very reliable is it? Couldn't people switch their coins out?

 

'Zactly my point!

I think you misunderstood me. What I meant was collect raw, and IF a certain year rises in value, then you have the option of getting that year graded. It will be at least MS69, possibly MS70. Now you're in a situation where you may make out because of the enhanced value of the slabbed ASE - if it gets MS70. If it's MS69, the TPG fee and any premium is a wash. Remember - they're all at least MS69.
Raw will rise in value by the same amount as MS69s.
BUT...paying the premium for MS69 for every one you buy, if one or two issues increase in price (due to lower mintage, Mint problems, etc.), the multiple premiums you have already paid for all the other years is more than the premium you may see from the scarcer issues.
You simply won't be able to sell MS69s for more than you paid. Further, with the bubble deflating in the market, which is how I see it, you'll actually lose money.
I've had three NGC MS69 complete sets for four years now - am selling them Friday - and I'm going to lose money. If I put them on ebay with a reserve or starting bid high enough to just break even, they'll never sell because there are too many sets out there (put up by large volume sellers/dealers who promoted the market) selling for less. It's not going to change.
As far as silver spot price, it will affect all ASEs, slabbed and raw, by the same amount.