What about less common world silver?

Recently, I switched my focus from coin collecting to buying silver bullion - not collecting bullion - more of an investment approach. I like government issued world bullion for the most part and I have been buying the more common coins with the lowest premiums. So far, I have focusing on:

1 American Silver Eagles
2 Austrian Philharmonic
3 Canadian Maple Leaf
4 Australian Kangaroos
5 UK Britannia
6 Sunshine rounds when I find a good deal.

Many online vendors offer more "exotic" bullion from countries like Armenia, Congo, Somalia, Rwanda, etc. Is there any downside to purchasing bullion from these countries? And why is the premium on Chinese Pandas so high? Even the Mexican Libertads are a bit pricey.

I am thinking about buying some 1 oz Armenian Noah's Ark and 1 oz Somalian Elephant as they are reasonable priced. I admit that I enjoy the numismatic aspect of these coins, but from an investment point of view, I need to be more objective.

 

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I am a covert from MPC to Bullion investing, but strictly bullion not in to the extra
Or so called bonus features. 1 OZ is 1OZ be it Gold, Silver, Platinum or even Palladium, which is humming right now ! for me i like to stay diverse in my investing
Have Silver rounds, ASE,S and Bars, i really like Krugerrands have started buying
some 1/10 OZ examples and APE,S going to get me some AGE,S tomorrow and
some Palladium if my local dealer has any ??

So probably investing in any of those would be a good choice, Bullion aside as
Long as there isnt to big of a premium i say go for it

 

Well, I definitely am not going to pay the current premium on the Rwandan Hippo. Please check my math, but I believe it is selling at a 30% premium. One vendor quoted $24.55 per oz. Spot is $17.26. Subtracting these two gives $7.29 above spot. Then $7.29 divided by $17.26 (and multiply by 100) gives 30%.

I have been thinking about gold because the premiums are much lower than silver. Here is what I gathered over the last couple of minutes:

GOLD PREMIUMS:

Swiss Helvetica (0.1867 oz) 8.3% premium
2017 British Gold Sovereign (0.2354 oz) 6.9% premium
1/4 oz American Gold Eagle 10.9% premium
1/2 oz American Gold Eagle 7.4% premium
1 oz American Eagle 4.9% premium
1 oz Canadian Maple Leaf 3.9% premium
1 oz South African Krugerrand 3.0% premium

COMPARED TO SILVER:

1 oz Sunshine round 7.5% premium
1 oz American Eagle 18.4% premium
1 oz Canadian Maple Leaf 14.4% premium
1 oz Austrian Philharmonic 14.4% premium
1 oz Armenian Noah's Ark, Australian Kangaroo, UK Britannia 15.0%

Clearly, the premiums for gold are much lower. On the downside, you can purchase about 65 ASE for the price of a single AGE. But the 2017 British Gold Sovereign are currently going for $320.00. It carries a 6.9% premium that is lower than any of the above silver bullion. In fact, I am thinking about buying a 2017 Sovereign. That's the equivalent of about 16 ASE. Sunshine silver rounds are always a good buy - especially if there is a special.

 

Like anything, the more you buy the more you save kind of what i like to call the Costco affect the 1/10 OZ coins have a big premium based on your math probably
upwards of 13% but buying a coin at roughly $150 and one at $1,350 is a big difference, that,s one of the reasons i like the Kruger but it depends on where you
Buy it paid $177 for mine and saw AGE,S in the $150 range.

On the Silver side your for sure going to pay more of a premium because it is less
Costly and they have to charge more for it to make any money, my experience
has been at my local dealer $1.75 to $2.00 over spot for Silver rounds and about
$2.50 for ASE,S premium dates a little more but i would always avoid those as
I am simply investing the bullion content not the coin itself.

 

If you are truly buying "only" for investment, I strongly suggest you save until you can get the 1oz. gold bullion products, and not buy the 1/10oz. You will have more gold for your money due to premiums on fractionals. (Patience is a Virtue) I like to think of my collection being an investment also, but don't purchase some of the high premium pieces to make a profit. I buy those because I like the design. I of course hope they do make me, or my beneficiaries a profit, I just don't buy them as an investment. Stack on my friend.

 

Yeah, i know but have to look at in the realistic sense a 1 OZ venture would save dollars in the long run it would take along time plus i want have some variety
So starting at the high level would be difficult.

 

Look at it this way, if you buy a 1oz. coin, it's like getting an extra 1/10oz.+ for free as far as costs go. I absolutely understand wanting something now, but that's not good investment strategy IMO.

 

This is pretty great advice.

Buying fractional is a terrible investment. Consider the example below of buying 1 ounce of gold.

Example Via Apmex
Spot: $1269

1 ounce Gold Maple Leaf
You buy from them at $1316, premium of 3.6% or $47
You sell back to them at $1277, at a loss of $39

You end up -$39

1/10 Ounce Gold Maple Leaf
You from them at $146 x 10=$1460, a premium of 13% or $191
You sell back to them at $126.50 x 10 =$1265, at a loss of $195

You end up -$195


However, if you are collecting, buying tenth ounce gold allows you to have a wide variety of gold coins for a much lower cost than buying full one ounce coins. Just realize you will probably lose money even if you resell because gold goes up.

 

Not in it for the short haul, bullion investing is for me long term so buying
Something at a higher premium now would hope that down the line could
Re coop some if not all of those costs and maybe make a couple extra bucks
My thinking.

 

But again, if you're buying tenth ounce gold, and you're paying a premium of 13% and then selling at a loss, you need gold to go up at least 14% before you can even break even.

And if your goal as an investment is to resell years from now and hope to make 50% (or whatever you goal is) you'll need to factor in that loss for how long to wait.

It's very risky. If your plan is to resell at some point in retirement, and that's decades from now, you might be ok.

 

If the goal is to make the most profit, then purchasing at the lowest premium is smartest, regardless of when one sells.

 

Yes, paying the lowest premium should generally yield the highest profit later. That is the safest and smartest investment.

But it's not that simple.
1) We don't know his financial means today. He may not be able to afford 1 oz coins. And if he waits until he can, gold may have risen in price more over that span of time than if he had bought 1/10 coins periodically during it.
2) We don't know if some of those 1/10 coins with seminumismatic value may be in high demand later. That presents an opportunity to make more money later on lunar tenth ounces, privy coins, etc.

So, while I generally agree with you, there are considerations that could make tenth ounce buying the right move for him. However, if I were in the position to give advice I would NEVER advise buying anything fractional. The risk is just too high.

 

I thank you all for your replies. I think that for investment purposes, paying the lowest premium is one of the most important factors. Based on my calculations and your recommendations, 1 oz gold coins seems like the way to go.

But Jason made a good point. For my budget, I could only buy 1 oz gold coins sparingly. My investment strategy is more like putting money in a savings account. I am not using the buy low, sell high Wall Street approach. Instead of blowing my spare money on things that I can do without, I am buying bullion.
I can introduce 1 oz gold coins to my stash on occasion, but not on a regular basis. Nevertheless, I am always in pursuit of the best deal I can get for my money.

In regards of fractional gold bullion, Gold British Sovereigns (0.2354 oz) are offered at premiums lower than that of any other type of silver bullion or even 1/2 oz AGE. Based on the math, buying gold Sovereigns seems like a good option. But, in practice, I don't have the knowledge. For one thing, the amount of gold in a Sovereign (0.2354 oz) is not an even fraction like a 1/10th oz or 1/4th oz. And maybe more importantly, I rarely hear or read of buying Gold Sovereigns.
What are your thoughts on buying modern gold British Sovereigns?

 

Anyone who buys gold (or silver) and talks about the profit or loss from an immediate sale is talking nonsense. Gold and silver should be bought only for long term prospects. Anything else is speculative. If you buy a 1/10oz now for a x% premium then there is a very good chance that you can sell it for a x% premium in the future.

Bottom line is: buy what you can afford and the rest will take care of itself. After all, you are not going to sell until the profit is significant so whether you make 40% or 45% is no big deal. That sort of difference can depend on market timing anyway.

 

My financial means are intact...LOL, would say more then most but if you plan on buying multiple examples of gold coins like i do buying an OZ of each would add
up fast, i have about 80K in high grade one of kind MPC so finances not really much
of an issue but i dont want to sell those at the moment so a little here and a little there is my direction.

Whet to my local coin shop today picked up a couple of ASE,S and this 1/10 OZ
AGE which i got for $127 which is a fantastic deal,havent had a chance to do the
Math but that is far better then anything i found on the bay

 

$127 is a great deal! Maybe too good of a deal. Weigh it, measure it, and visually examine it. That's almost too good to be true. That's at spot.

 

Its from my local dealer and hes been there for several years, my purchase is
so small that for him to try and screw me out of a few dollars wouldnt even
Make the least bit of sense plus i have been going to him for awhile now

 

Just be aware that sometimes the seller doesn't realize the coin may be counterfeit for various reasons. Never hurts to check it out yourself to be sure. Remember, even TPGS have passed some fakes in the past.