Washington State proposed bill to make gold and silver legal tender

At this time everyone knows it is a farce and that your waste of time.

 

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I would simply be unsure. What will the state do with the coins people paid taxes with? Simply turn around and sell them. Gold coins are not a depositable item, the state would have to have an arrangement to sell to a local dealer. As to people buying PM to pay taxes, why would they? DOes anyone know, if your property taxes are $6,000 a year, how many gold conis it will take to pay your property taxes next year? Anyone? I didn't think so. Why would people take $6,000 and go buy PM if they are not sure that will be enough PM to pay their taxes, when they KNOW the $6,000 will be enough?

This is not even getting into the arguments about the premiums dealers charge for PM versus the value the state will give you. What if you walk into the state with a ultra high relief Saint Gaudens. What value will the state give you for it? I could see the arguments, accusations of fraud, etc just go round and round.

Regarding the well made Chinese fakes. I am glad you don't feel it will be an issue, but I do since many or most dealers cannot tell the differences and the state workers accepting these will not be as trained as they. Secondly, I see all of this PM just getting lumped together so I don't see how the state would even be able to trace who paid in fake PM even if it were discovered later.

Maybe I am just dense and simply do not see the advantages.

 

I think most of your specific questions were answered in webomatic's great post. See Here

As for what the state will do with the gold coinage, it will be large enough where it won't have to deal with local dealers. I can see where, if they decide to liquidate some of their holdings, they could deal directly with the bullion exchanges and/or banks. Given the short selling of gold & silver contracts, I don't think they would have any issues at all with the state finding willing buyers.

The biggest advantage that I see immediately when the law passes is that you can use your gold to pay an obligation and not be subject to capital gain's tax. It's a huge advantage to someone who has held PM for a long time. Of course it doesn't do anything for someone who doesn't own PM now but then, this is why most of us here buy bullion. i.e. By the time the public and the naysayers figure the value of PM vs fiat, the train will have already left the station.

 

It would be worse than that. In the real world, Not "Fatima-Land" the state would need to all of the following at MINIMUM

A) A Spot Gold Pricing ticker that can translate dollars to gold
B) A means of making Gold Change
C) Scales to weight the gold
D) Assay Chemical systems to Test the Gold for purity of Content
E) Advanced training of every state work who handles money
F) A new banking system that allows for Gold to be paid to employees for pay checks on demand
G) Cooperation with the States Banks (hah)
H) A depository for tall that gold and a system for deliverying it to every State Agency as needed


Yeah - the tax payers of Washington will be THRILLED with this and any State Legislature that would pass it.


... in a state that is so anti-tax that they have no income tax...

yah got to love it.

Ruben

 

A) A Spot Gold Pricing ticker that can translate dollars to gold
The proposed law states how this will be done. Why don't you try reading it?
B) A means of making Gold Change
Can be done by issuing tax credits, silver and gold change, plain ordinary fiat, bank check. Rocket science isn't needed.
C) Scales to weight the gold
Every financial entity dealing with coins have these already
D) Assay Chemical systems to Test the Gold for purity of Content
Read the law. They won't be taking junk PM
E) Advanced training of every state work who handles money
Every state employee handling state's currency already gets this.
F) A new banking system that allows for Gold to be paid to employees for pay checks on demand
Not needed.
G) Cooperation with the States Banks (hah)
Like a bank would turn down a state banking contract.
H) A depository for tall that gold and a system for deliverying it to every State Agency as needed
You accuse me of "ghetto talk". LOL

 

I can't read psychedelic letters and psychotic rantings. You should chose just one.

just saying, if you want to converse, make it somewhat legible.

Ruben

 

As peviously noted the State of Washington does not have an income tax and therefore no state capital gains tax anyway. So there is no advantage here. As for Federal Income tax - no state law is going to change things there.

 

They have no choice but to provide a means.

 

Actually there is a proposal being considered by the state government to create a 5% capital gains tax on investments in 2012. The gold and silver law as written would exempt gold and silver from these kinds of taxes. But you are correct, at this time there would be no advantage. However the other immediately advantage that I see to the holder of PMs would be that you can use your long term holdings to pay obligations without having to go through the expense of conversion to fiat first.

 

As already stated, this Act won't become effective until 1/1/2013 if it even passes out of the House and over to the Senate.

But since the HB is stating:

So that will mean that IF the bill passes and is signed by the Governor we will be able to pay our property taxes and State revenue taxes in PM. Simply because it is stated as such; to protect property and assets from fiat dollar inflation.

So why would we use it? Say some of us have shelled away a few oz of PM or are intending to. As the bottom futher drops out of fiat dollars typically the value of PM rises as inflation occurs. Now say my property tax is $6k per year and then the dollar drops. Then what will happen to my property tax? And what can I use to protect the interest of my property? ...anyone? ...anyone?

But there is another portion of this Bill that hasn't been meantioned on this thread. Trade commerce with other countries. So how do you think some countries will feel to perform trade with... say... California using a potentially dropping fiat dollar vs. the State of Washington who can accept and purchase with gold, silver and fiat dollars? Sounds like Washington State has opened itself up to be more flexible with importing and exporting goods. It's magnified by the fact Washington State is a major port region.

Try not to overshoot the premise of this HB. Most won't even use it. But since the States are in violation, it must provide a means. The HB also states that retail merchants and purchasers are not obligated to perform transactions in gold and silver.

...and to touch once again on a previous post about it costing $$$ for scales. For some reason the butcher shop has certified scales, so whats the big deal?

 

Because you don't know what the heck you are talking about, quite frankly and talking from a place you don't know.

A butcher has a scale and sells his met by the pound, and not even well at that. A Pharmacy Class balance, accurate to plus or minus 5mg costs over $1,700 and requires enormous skill and requires a huge amount of delacy and maintence to use. And then you have fluctuating prices. GOLD OTOH would need to be even more accurate than what being handled by total morans and would require a cadre of inspectors. Frankly, your just making things up out of the air and sounding like a Moran.

 

Except that you ingored the newly passed LAW in Washington making Gold and Silver sales taxable AND non-anymous. So you continue to live in "Fatima-Land" where pixie dust is everywhere.

Ruben

 

FYI the sales tax in my county is over 9%. To say we're anti-tax is not accurate (at least in practice). Oregon on the other hand has no sales tax, and a high income tax. Either way, taxes are just as certain here as they are everywhere else.

Thank you for pointing this out as I was unaware. I'm much happier not having capital gains tax than having the ability to pay my taxes in gold or silver. If I can sell my metal without penalty then I don't mind changing out the funds on my own.

 

That's a good point mrbrkly. But I'm suggesting that these types of scales are State certified as required by any other calibrated scale used for commerce purposes. Meaning, that there will be requirements by the State to assure those who make transactions or sales are set within a standard.

But your point about the delicacy and maintence are very important points. I think merchants who may use scales for PM transactions will also acknowledge the importance too. They don't want to lose money either with an improperly calibrated scale. As toward your concern of "total mor(o)ns handling them, I'm sure the State will have a requirement of certification for those who intend to facilitate PM transactions.

 

What your not understanding is those scales allow for you to see water evaporate. drop a coin on them when they aren't locked and you destroy it.

 

Is this the same land where your "pretend" sister lives. OH SNAP. LOL

 

More Ebonics "Fatima"?

 

http://wa-bellevue.doctors.at/dr/rani-parichy-ranilinarelliparichypt

That is my sister. Where is yours?

 

This is irrelevant and if you want to see water evaporate, you can put on a kettle. Weighing gold coin doesn't require an elaborate scale. In fact, with a standard set of coinage, then a simple balance and a set of calibrated weights would suffice. It's not the challenge that you are making it out to be.

 

STOCKHOLM -- Sweden was the first European country to introduce bank notes in 1661. Now it's come farther than most on the path toward getting rid of them.

"I can't see why we should be printing bank notes at all anymore," says Bjoern Ulvaeus, former member of 1970's pop group ABBA, and a vocal proponent for a world without cash.

The contours of such a society are starting to take shape in this high-tech nation, frustrating those who prefer coins and bills over digital money.

In most Swedish cities, public buses don't accept cash; tickets are prepaid or purchased with a cell phone text message. A small but growing number of businesses only take cards, and some bank offices – which make money on electronic transactions – have stopped handling cash altogether.