Verifying 100 oz silver bars

There are certainly ways around putting yourself at risk buying PMs. I too have been around a while and have never needed to meet in a parking lot, nor carry a weapon to purchase PMs. You placed yourself in one potentially risky scenario today. Because you allow yourself to take such risks you are of the belief that "that's just the way it is." No, it certainly can be handled securely for all parties involved. Common sense does not prevent you from becoming a victim but it can help you from making poor choices. Your judgment appears right today, but you took a definite risk just by setting up this meeting from someone you came in contact with over the net. Yes, criminals stalk B&Ms and coin shows too, but they REALLY stalk the internet!

Some are willing to buy direct from online bullion dealers for the convenience of mail delivery, time savings or lack of access to coins shows and B&Ms. Sure there's a mark up, but to some buyers their time and security are worth the expense. For those buyers allowing bullion dealers to have records of these transactions they are not concerned with fears of government seizure and if it happens they may well just hand it over or deal with the specifics of the situation when it comes. You can choose to ship bullion purchases to a P.O. Box if that assuages your concerns over a home address being given away. And the fears of government... well I can't help those who are going to fight this argument but to say that you have something greater to fear if you fear your government, so maybe PMs are not really worth the risk if you fear the govt. will come knocking. Hypothetical: What's to say the guy you met today didn't buy the PMs (that you just bought) from a bullion dealer with transactions going back to his name and address and if/when (unlikely) the govt. comes asking for his PMs, he then tells the authorities he sold them to you... guess what, you told him (and this forum-- but I think you edited that comment out already) that 'you have my number' which he could pass on to the authorities that then could come looking for you/your PMs. If you are indeed so concerned, you have to follow the unlikely possibilities out to all conclusions to determine the risks you are willing to live with.

I am relieved that you had a good transaction today and Congrats on finding that ring too! :thumb:

 

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Buy some ASE or equivalent.They have all the necessary work done to make them usable if needed. The difference in price is not worth trying to move a 100oz bar at a later date.

 

Krispy: FBI via USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-01-18-bank-robberies_N.htm

Any type of self-defense is excessive until it is needed. One of the biggest problems in our society is people who have no self responsibility. I think the OP took appropriate steps to ensure his safety and took responsibility for his own protection. So long as you are within the laws, it is best to be better prepard than your potential assailant. People have been robbed and killed for far less than $2000. Congrats on the good buy! If he has any more of them for sale, I'd take one!

 

Thanks, Pep. I agree its harder to move a 100 oz bar. However, I already have 200 oz of SAE's and was looking to further diversify my silver holdings. I have it all...junk, 1 oz generic rounds, 1 oz generic bars, 1 oz Englehard rounds, 10 oz silvertowne bars, Maple Leafs, Libertads.......

Bis - I'll take a 100oz at spot all day long if I can find it. I still think silver is a good buy.

 

I understand the intention of your comments however differ on the opinion based logic suggesting mine were implied irresponsibility for which none of you have any grounds to base that upon. The other major flaw is that no two armed persons in a given scenario gone wrong are going to think themselves outside the confines of legal action once in the middle of a confusing situation. Becoming a victim and going on the defensive for personal security are far from administering the law by use of force, which is a good reason why an armed and trained police force represents the third party in such a situation. Showing up 'better prepared than your assailant' is the very thing that begets bigger and harsher consequences, ad infinitum an arms race or gangs acting like armies to deal with one another. At what point does one call ones self the most prepared yet within the law? Not all individuals respect the rule of law over their personal security and will certainly take the risk to go beyond the law. Besides, what member of the public doing their banking or shopping, going about their lives, or what passing by or responding to a call police officer(s) are going to be able to see from a spur of the moment gun battle which one is victim and which one criminal?

Like I was trying to say, such a transaction took excessive risks, required armed security at the OPs 'best judgement' and was totally unnecessary given the outlets for safely handling such transactions as others experience proves one needn't do their bullion transactions in such a manner to save a few dollars and fly under the radar of perceived government scrutiny. The entire transaction was filled with fears of the OP. THAT alone should have been reason enough to to set off alarm bells, re: 'common sense' as suggested by the OP, to figure this transaction out in an other more secure manner.

It's clear I am in a minority with my thoughts/views amongst this thread and perhaps this entire forum. Please do not get me wrong, I am not debating gun rights at all. I could care less that I am in a minority over how this transaction was conducted (but thankful that it was safe and successful) and I will 'defend' my unpopular view as soundly as I can with as much vigor as the opposite side of the debate feels they too must because I think it is good for others who may be reading this to see both sides of the situation. Thanks for debate. :smile

 

I doubt that there is any benefit to diversifying silver holdings. ASEs are best by test.

 

"The entire transaction was filled with fears of the OP. THAT alone should have been reason enough to to set off alarm bells, re: 'common sense' as suggested by the OP, to figure this transaction out in an other more secure manner."​

Actually, if you read my original post, the concern I had was buying a bar that had been hollowed out and filled with some base metal. I got two responsive answers and a bunch of non-responsive answers involving some nightmare scenarios of a armed hold-up right in front of a bank in broad daylight in a small mid-Michigan town. Frankly, I think taking my gun along was unecessary, but I wanted to be on the safe side. Krispy, your first post was responsive and then Cloud got you all riled up with the nightmare scenario and you bought into it.​

Cloud, diversification is the key to investing. SAE's may carry a numismatic premium in the future. Some so-called junk coins may become rarer if silver continues to rise and more are melted. Generic rounds are the best bang for your buck. I enjoy your posts as you are thoughtful. However, sometimes you are argumentative simply to be argumentative. ​

Read more: http://www.cointalk.com/t128717-3/#ixzz0zVXD6X7l​

 

I read every word of the original post prior to my first post. I read about your concern and seriously didn't find the risk of a hollowed out bar as great as the potential scenarios conceived around personal security thereafter. Cloud did nothing to inform my further posts. It is a valid point though that this was an inherently risky situation that defies much 'common sense' to even have arranged it in the manner you described. By 'fears' I meant the actions you felt were necessary after setting up a potentially risky in-person transaction from an unknown source you met over the internet. This may have led to a sense of needing to be cautious, whether you recognized that consciously or subconsciously beforehand or not. Fear for personal safety took hold ("wanted to be on the safe side."), in this potentially risky scenario, and led you to arm yourself in the event of the worst case scenario.

Worse things have happened as I'm sure you know and the extreme examples were not really that extreme. Given the amount of money involved, a potential shooting or life lost isn't worth $2k especially when there are simple safer solutions available for buying PMs. However, with that said, I do not wish for anyone to doubt the honesty of their fellow man. I should hope you would take this transaction just as seriously if you were arranging to buy $2000 worth of diapers, milk or water. Somehow I don't think the vast majority in this situation think this way, clouded by the concept of the object (precious metals) to be acquired.

Very few responses were non-responsive, just not what you want/wanted to hear or were prepared to follow the OP, but this is an open forum with many sides of the argument openly presented and the situation was far from simple, potentially taking any number of directions, many of which have been explored here but should not be dismissed. Again, I am at ease knowing that you had a positive experience and a friendly safe transaction was what presented you and the seller alike.

I happen to disagree that members are argumentative simply to be argumentative. Overall, Cloud is the complete opposite of that comment. While you are still new here and getting used to different personalities and commentators that frequent these threads, a random sampling of Cloud's posts will show that in most cases he is simply stating facts, correcting inaccuracies of others' comments or their misunderstanding of certain facts and in so doing shares information for others not to be misled-- least of all to outright take and stranger's words for something from an online forum. In fact, when he seems unclear on a point, he says so in a questioning manner, openly and willing to be corrected if someone can explain better about a given topic being discussed. Above all, he presents information to suggest each person do their homework and cautions others from hasty decisions arriving from erroneous ideas about investing, collecting, economics, etc.

Overall, there are scores of valid and reasoned points of view expressed in these forums, some clearer and others more/less biased than others' opinions and experiences. Sometimes we don't want to hear those things from others having come to our own 'best' conclusions and ultimately that's all we can do is act accordingly to our own best judgement but that still doesn't mean it's the only recourse. I think it's great we can share pros and cons openly and let the lurkers, YNs and those in question see the reasoning for all sides willing to share. Without the OP and these forums we would have none of this. :thumb:

 

Thanks Krispy.

Tommybee, I'm happy the transaction worked out for you. That doesn't change the fact that it was a risky thing to do on several levels. Regarding my views on what to buy, it has been demonstrated many times here that it is more important to buy what can most easily be resold someday than to seek out the lowest price. That's what adds value, not diversification.

 

Cloud,

Who has problems selling 1 oz rounds, 10 oz bars and 100 oz bars? Check out any coin show, eBay, or AMPEX for that matter. Sure generics don't carry the premium of a SAE when you sell them, but you're not paying that premium when you buy them either.

What would someone, who had all of their physical silver holdings in SAE's, do if the government came out and said, that due to problems with its supplier, it cannot guarantee any of their silver content? That person would be screwed. However, if that person only had 15% of his/her physical silver holdings in SAE's then they'd be ok.

What if the US government demands that all SAE's be turned over to stave of a financial crisis? Like the collapse of our fiat system? What if they made possession of them illegal?

 

If you are worried that ASEs will be confiscated [but nothing else will], and that ASEs have problems with silver purity, but generic silver rounds and bars don't, then by all means you should diversify for peace of mind. I would be more worried about the purity of the rounds and bars, but that's just me. Why do you think they sell at a discount? For me, ASEs are best by test and will be easier to resell for spot or better under most conditions. A coin shop near me pays $1 over spot for ASEs, but buys rounds at a discount. There is also the numismatic kicker. Someday, the Mint will discontinue the series, and ASEs will immediately begin to accrue at least some numismatic value because the supply will be fixed but demand will continue. You don't have to agree I just want others to think about it.

 

I'm not "worried" about government confiscation of silver, I'm not "worried" about the government announcing purity issues with ASE's. I'm also not "worried" about being killed in a car accident on the way home from work tonight. However, all of those things could happen. That's why I diversify my silver holdings and that's why I have life insurance.

 

In my opinion, for silver investment, Englehard and Johnson Matthey bars are the way to go for two reasons. For one, they are not subject to the retail markup of ASE's. Secondly, they are highly reputable and seem to enjoy more market acceptance than generic silver.

 

+1

 

ASEs are probably the least risky silver investment. By diversifying, you are increasing, not decreasing your risk. But this is your right.

 

"probably" is exactly my point, Cloud.

 

ASEs are "probably" the least risky because a case could be made that Maple Leafs and other government sponsored bullion coins are equally safe. But either one is less risky than the other forms of silver you like. I know you disagree, but I just want other readers to consider that ASEs are safer than buying 100 ounce silver bars from strangers in a parking lot, regardless of what you say. Anyway, this will be my last post on the topic. Good luck to you.

 

What about buying 5 rolls of ASE's in a parking lot from a stranger? We were discussing diversification of one's physical silver holdings - not how they are purchased. That is, should someone spread it around with ASE's, generic rounds, JM bars, etc., or put all of their eggs in one basket with ASE's. I advocate the former and you the latter.

However, in an attempt to reframe the argument, you bring up my "dangerous" broad daylight transaction in front of a bank in a small mid-Michigan town with a 76 year old Korean War Veteran. Which is, of course, off topic and a cheap shot. That's what some people do when they lose arguments, I guess. That and they pronounce their "last post on the topic" afterwards.