US Mint sold out of 2013 silver eagles - 6,000,000+ sold!

But, "the market" is a private market. Someone OWNS it, (I happen to own stock in them). Does anyone here buy contracts, options, etc on the COMEX? If not, then the market is not concerned with you. They are a BUSINESS. They are not a governmental agency set up to price discover as a public service. They are there to service their customers the best way they see fit. If the REAL customers of COMEX are unhappy, COMEX will respond to their issues.

The buyers and sellers on COMEX are there for their own reasons, and settle on prices of silver for their own reasons, and ASE buyers have literally no say in the matter, nor will they ever have a say.

Do you think, if you never step foot in Tiffany's, you should have input into what Tiffany's does? Do you think you have a right to demand they change their business model? If you were a CUSTOMER of Tiffany's your concerns may be listened to, but if you have never done business with them, nor will you ever do business with them, then WHY should they care about your thoughts?

Similarly, WHY should COMEX give a rip about what we think about their market? WE ARE NOT THEIR CUSTOMERS. We are simply using their market, (without their permission per se, nor with any compensation from us), for our own purposes.

I just don't think many people who complain about pricing really understand that the silver market on COMEX was not created to deal with pricing of their ASE's or junk silver. They treat it like its a free government service that they should have input on. Its not, its a private business who make their customers happy. Period. If anyone else uses their prices because they don't want to do it themselves, whatever, but don't expect to have a say in the business if you are not a customer.

One last thought. If those who believe silver is undervalued on the CME, then CALL THEIR BLUFF. Put your money down up front and take physical delivery.

 

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medoraman

I am in 1,000 percent agreement with the sentiments you have addressed above.
I do agree we would all make a difference if we suddenly all started taking physical delivery of options.
I would however also urge caution. Look carefully at what was happening to gold during the great depression. Note carefully how President Roosevelt reacted to the virtually simultaneous discoveries that the government had no wealth and that many people had private stockpiles and physical possession of their own gold hordes. I am among the people who believe that if current Federal financial practices continue without check then a fiscal collapse is quite possible. I think 'they' know that too, and have little interest in allowing it to occur. In some ways the Internet has become one of the government's greatest allies because every time you write something, purchase something or do any electronic transaction, an electronic record of that is stored by your ISP (required under the Patriot Act) and made available for government review. In 1933 (32?) Roosevelt banned the private ownership of gold and the US Government after a brief turn in period confiscated a lot of it, issuing their paper money as a replacement when necessary. On both sides of my family my grandparents had their very hard earned gold coins confiscated by such action. A few people went to jail for refusing and at least one (Internet documentable) person experienced the Federal government raiding his safe deposit box at the bank to go along with the Federal 'illegal gold hording' charges he faced in court. Was iit all as succesful as the pro-government media of the time hyped? Provably no. If you were a nobody and no one knew you had it the horde of 20 gold pieces (or gold ingots from Deadwood, SD) your grandfather may have left you were unknown to the govvernment and such things did not re-emerge until the government edicts banning such possession were lifted. That is the only reason you can still find those items available for sale today. Had the government known someone had them, they would have taken them, using whatever force was needed. President Nixon had a choice, go on a worthless paper money system with easy credit terms, or stay on a metal standard. In my youth in the days dimes were made from real silver, even if you had thosands in the bank writing checks wasn't available to most Americans, neither was credit cards. Instead you had bank drafts and letters of credit. My family had a 'not nice' term for people who bought cars on credit rather than paying cash.

[Because the term was racially offensive and derogatory I won't repeat it here, but will say it was related to the economic well being of freed slaves after our civil war and how in many cases literally everything they had was actually owned by someone else.]

Times and government controlled values change and today a Heck of a lot of Americans would have their financial status described by the forbidden term. As a result our paper and credit funded living standard is much higher, we americans mostly all live longer (I remember when it was front page news one day that our local hospital had by getting a loan purchased an X-ray machine of their very own so there was no more need to transport someone to another hospital for an X-ray, which was sometimes a life or death decision with folks possibly dying en route), but our debt and the Government's is humongous and growing every every second. Sooner or later the Piper will have to be paid or he will leave.

I do not pretend to know how Uncle will resolve things. What I do know is 'they' (I am with Willy Nelson on 'they', but I fear they is us) do not like the idea of giving up nice things, long life, (and perhaps most important to 'them control. So what are their options?

I see several but the one I most fear is to move us back to a bullion standard, possibly silver, and a dusting off and re-issuance of the earlier decrees.

[If we can make it to 2050 without that happening, it probably never will.]

I haven't done enough research to prove a connection between the edicts allowing simple confiscation of horded gold and the passage of Federal legislation in 1934 banning the possession of machine guns and hand grenades (both of which were perfectly legal to own at that time), but I suspect they may have a cause and effect relationship in as much as the years earlier repeal of prohibition had already ended much of the prior bootlegger gang violence that was hyped as a continuing potential threat and danger to the society and our children (of the time). That legislation caught a lot of gun owners pretty much by surprise as they weren't nearly as organized as they are today. Govt records do show much confiscation of gold occurred after the same individuals lost the weapons they had owned.

Someone once said words to the effect, history repeats and those who do not learn from history are condemmed to repeat it. Very true. Uncle Sam often (since they own the Archives) studies legislative histories and tries to correct earlier mistakes.

Today;s rifles and pistols are both cheaper to make (stampings and plastic) and acquire, and more lethal than the arms of 1933. This would potentially be a problem if a silver confiscation was being considered. There is a solution for 'them' however. Pass laws prohibiting the possession of those devices by anyone except our approved agents. Do it in the name of children. Enough people will have gut reactions and support will grow.

Do I beleive every adherent to the support of guns has 'take their silver; in the back of their minds? Of course not. In our culture where Bambi is a gentle beast who never eats squirrels, field mice and chipmunks and meat grows in little packages at the supermarket and only violent (probably deranged) persons are willing to use violence to defend their property and lives, they have been taught guns are evil. That only a very small percentage of our legislators have actually served any where 'under arms' and might know otherwise helps perpetuate that myth. Is there a possibility that the coming genuine fiscal collapse and the efforts for gun control are purely coincidental? Of course.

Personally, having served under arms in situations where people wanted me dead and out of the way (amongst other things I was once an armed guard at methadone clinics and on armored cars and trucks) I have learned paranoia and developed a tendency to sometimes view disparate events as possibly being a part of one 'not yet materialized' coming future event. Little things, and somewhere little bells start going off.

A lot of you may not be aware, but the world actually destroys a LOT of silver every year. So much that it is viewed as a vanishing element. A lot of the industrial usage of silver involves breaking it down into ultra small almost molecular sized clumps and spraying or mixing it with something else. Once this is done it is gone. We have no technology to recover silver from old socks (used as an anti-bacterial bath) or similar. This means that old Mercury dime in your change (representative of a full 12 hour's days wages for much of human history) technically becomes a little bit rarer as a representation of the world's silver supply every day. Yes, currently this is ignored. I do not believe that ignoring of reality will continue for many more decades.

What does this mean for you as you go on line today and purchase a $500 dollar face value sack of silver quarters (about $6g, or 12 pounds of silver)? Nothing yet. But do be aware that you just created a government accessible record of the transaction and somewhere, someday, someone in uniforms with guns and a piece of paper may knock on your door to take it.

So go ahead if you want, raise their awareness of how important the hoarders of silver are to the world's physical supply. I would, and you can call me paranoid if you want, personally prefer that they never notice it.

 

I guess it just depends on the definition of 'market'. My perception of a market consists of buyers and sellers agreeing on a price which then sets the gauge for what others can expect to pay. This will happen with or without the CME's market. It's the generic term vs. the label being applied. People who never deal with the CME's market but are still buying and selling physical silver do have an impact on the market even if it is diminished due to the CME's marketplace undermining any external price discovery. On the one hand I am thankful that they are allowing me to buy on the cheap, but on the other hand we are running short on supply for an absolutely essential metal for human advancement.

 

That's fine. I was simply trying to show why COMEX does not really respond to collectors of coins, nor should they really, when we complain about their market.

Trying to put it in perspective for everyone that we use their private market, they are not trying to affect ours. We are free to use whatever pricing mechanisms we feel like. We just have no right to complain about COMEX since we are not participants and its not run for our benefit. I have never seen an ASE buyer pay a fee to COMEX.

That's all. I do feel PM buyers should be aware of this fact.

 

Well, my proof eagle arrived today..........