TRYING TO "Play the GSR" -- HORRIBLE IDEA

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by goldcollector, Apr 17, 2017.

  1. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Numismatic gold are some of the prettiest especially the world ones. It doesn't bother me to much for the numismatic ones, but I have ended up staying away from the 1 oz ones since they seem to be bullion price or crazy expensive
     
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  3. Spark1951

    Spark1951 Accomplishment, not Activity

    For us newbies, what is FRN and PM?

    I've noticed a lot of acronym usage, explanations would be helpful. Thanks.
     
  4. sakata

    sakata Devil's Advocate

    Federal Reserve Note. Precious Metals.
     
  5. rrholdout

    rrholdout Active Member

    I have to say, after reading this thread over a few times, many great points, that I am coming to more fully appreciate Sakata's point of view, though Kurt says we should do the opposite. If you're looking to make money [i.e. dollars], bullion is a poor choice. But if you're looking to store money, bullion is an excellent choice. It seems counterintuitive to choose to 'store' money, as we grow up thinking money should always be put to work to make more money [maybe due to inflationary erosion always dogging it].

    Yes the transaction costs of converting one asset to another always cause some loss. But some states are taking sluggish action to properly recognizing gold and silver as currency again. Of course it does happen to be in the U.S. Constitution:

    - Article I, Section 10, “No State shall…make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts.”

    They are up against the Fed, which will be a long haul - much worse than weed.

    Some small businesses are accepting silver as payment in basic food/gas transactions. This could increase dramatically over time as dollar-faith continues to drop.

    Though it may be delusional to envision a post-apocalyptic future in which we're all bartering gold and silver coins for goods, I think it's equally delusional to have any long-term confidence in our present debt-driven third-world-upheld economic system.
     
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  6. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor

    I would vastly prefer real estate property as a long held storage of money to bullion, yet many on the forum can't afford sums real estate ownership often require. Many do not own their homes mortgage debt free. I think Sakata and a few others have mentioned they do, but I also have seen many have mentioned they do not. Get out of any debt before buying any bullion as the debt will easily take any gains bullion might theoretically have gain through ownership. IMO.
     
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  7. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Yeahhh, those buggers down at the Fed, all they do is save the world from ruin, the creeps. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:o_O
     
  8. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    All this did was end individual state coinage such as existed before the ratification. Congress was given pretty much carte blanche.
     
  9. rrholdout

    rrholdout Active Member

    How is Lancaster Kurt? I grew up there, went to Hempfield, Penn State. Have they revitalized downtown and the market like they were hoping to?
     
  10. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    iPhone X. How is that a new product? Did they move the charging port again? Apple hasn't created anything new since Steve Jobs left the planet. It's just the Apple zombies that have to have the next version of an old product every six months. Shorting supply creates demand in people's minds - you know, like the U.S. Mint putting limits on products so that flippers and dealers can turn it quick for a profit. Large corporations aren't making money the old-fashioned way. You know, making new and innovative products that people need or can't live without. They just sock the cash away because they don't have any idea what to make. And creation is something they've only read about in the bible and history books. Just make a movie based on a comic book, then remake it 10 years later. And they confuse a rising stock market with an economy that is doing well. Go figure.
     
  11. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    The only problem with real estate is that you can't move it. You're at the whim of legislators changing tax codes, or having one area become blighted and unwanted. And besides, no one ever owns real estate - even when there isn't a mortgage. If you don't believe that, don't pay your property taxes and see what happens. Every piece of real estate has a lien holder that is ready to foreclose.
     
  12. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor

    Just as a person may choose Gold or Silver rather than copper or steel as a physical metal, One must pick the areas well. And I doubt there is anyone who can cover all factors so that their future is always secure. You limit exposure to future actions no matter what the medium of security and deal with the end results. One's property may go underwater or gold may become radioactive or the sun becomes red and sterilizes the earth. I truly believe that metals are more at risk for tax or possession codes to be enacted than losing ones real estate since such has a history already. I am a lien holder in some property also :)
     
  13. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    I grew up in Reading, attended Reading High School, and Franklin & Marshall for college. I lived in northeast Lancaster county until 2 weeks ago and am now in Harrisburg. My Econ profs at F&M included one of America’s first “China experts” (before Nixon went), a future PA Secretary of Banking, a future Prime Minister of Turkey, an avowed Socialist, and a gentleman from Harvard who studied abroad with John Kaynard Keynes.

    Downtown Lancaster is stunning. Watt & Shand is now a convention Center. Only the façade remains.
     
  14. David Setree Rare Coins

    David Setree Rare Coins Well-Known Member

    This is all over my head.

    The only time I like being over my head is when I fill my bathtub up with sovereigns, 20 franc pieces, small Mexican gold and 1/10 oz. bullion.....


    ......then the breast stroke is pleasant also.
     
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  15. rrholdout

    rrholdout Active Member


    I see, out towards Ephrata and Adamstown. Went to Penn State at Berks, to stay within commuting range of home. I grew up in the suburbs on the west side of Lancaster, Hempfield was a great school, top of the class going to schools like Harvard and Stanford. Ultimately moved downtown and lived off Orange Street and later Duke Street, a block south of the train station. Later moved to a neighborhood beside F&M. Loved the walks through the brickyard. Spent many hours in the wonderful F&M library. Had a student friend who checked out some books for me - If I remember right, it was Elie Faure's multi-volume 'History of Art'. Great to hear the city's doing well. It's a beautiful place. South of King Street used to be a war zone with a lot of gang violence pre-2000. I believe for a day Lancaster was once the capital of the nation. Lot of history there.

    In 97' paddled a canoe up the Susquehanna from Pequea to the river's source [Lake Otsego] in Cooperstown, NY. Magical trip. Would love to do it again . . . but this time, go downstream . . .

    I'm going to Google today 'How the Federal Reserve Saved the World in 2009'. ;)
     
  16. rrholdout

    rrholdout Active Member

    Have to agree with this as my main trade is land. I specialize in purchasing/restoring/developing rural acreage, then sell through financing. It appears land is still overvalued post 2008, and demand is low/falling. But there is a big difference between hot city lots, acreage on the edge of a booming, or soon to be booming metro area, and semi-remote/remote acreage. Does the new generation want land, and to work land, or to surf their digital world in a high-rise? Our kids certainly don't. I am afraid we are dinosaurs here too, and the old 'Buy and Hold' adage may not hold true in our Brave New World. And gov't is always on the prowl to take more land, for any pretext. Know folks who've been bitterly forced to sell to Big Gov, generally below FMV.

    On the financing angle, inflation eats at the interest rate. The seller is clearly the loser here, and the purchaser saves [we generally do 20 year deals]. I am seriously considering structuring the next deal to have the purchaser pay monthly in silver. My wife of course thinks it's ludicrous . . . but hey, a cash-strapped motivated buyer may go for it, if fully explained. They could cash-wise come out a winner. Just play with the amortization table till I get a monthly that works out to so many exact ounces, based on current spot. But should I accept rounds, foreign coins, junk? This is sounding fun.
     
  17. sakata

    sakata Devil's Advocate

    Probably only ASEs (or AGEs) as they are legal tender and in many states not taxable.
     
  18. Deadline

    Deadline Active Member

  19. rrholdout

    rrholdout Active Member

    Sure, with a preference for mid-90's mintages . . . ;)
     
  20. rrholdout

    rrholdout Active Member

    Hmmm . . . I've always set my limit at spot + 15% for silver. Didn't realize the ceiling was 20%.
     
  21. Deadline

    Deadline Active Member

    Its a general guideline that can be adjusted by the two party's involved to come up with a fair deal where both party's walk away happy with their exchange. For me it would depend on what they were using, bars, coins, generic rounds, etc.
     
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