Translation Please...?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Steven Michael Gardner, May 17, 2022.

  1. Steven Michael Gardner

    Steven Michael Gardner Well-Known Member

    I have this coin that I am hoping someone will do a translation of the writing on it;
    BAΣIΛEΩΣ POIMHTAΛKOV --- KAIΣAPOΣ ΣHBAΣTOY so as to give
    us all what it says or means in general English...?
    Augustus-Rhoemetalkes-I-Pythodoris.jpg
     
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  3. zadie

    zadie Well-Known Member

    Obverse says: King Rhoemetalkes
    Reverse says: Caesar Augustus
     
  4. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    Very nice example

    0030-420.jpg
    Semi autonomous coinage of Thracia, c11BC-12AD
    KAISAROS SEBASTOU, Bust of Augustus right
    BASILEWS ROIMHTALKOU, Busts of Rhoemetalkes and his wife right
    9.82 gr
    Ref : Sear #5396

    Q
     
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  5. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    That's a very nice coin, @Steven Michael Gardner. Here's a similar coin, but it's unclear who is on the coin because experts disagree. Augustus or Tiberius? Rhoemetalces I or his grandson, Rhoemetalces II? Pythodoris, the wife of Rhoemetalces I or the unnamed wife of Rhoemetalces II?

    RPC, the most up-to-date in terms of scholarship, attributes it to Tiberius and Rhoemetalces II.

    Although RPC calls the jugate busts side the obverse, it's clear from my coin that this side was the one struck by the hand-held die and the hammer; it's thus the REVERSE and I label it as such.

    [​IMG]
    Kings of Thrace under Roman rule.
    AE 24 mm, 6.88 g.
    Uncertain mint of Thrace.
    Obv: ΑΥΤΟΚΡΑΤΟ[ΡΟΣ ΚΑΙΣΑΡΟΣ ΣΕΒΑΣ]ΤΟΥ, bare head of Augustus or Tiberius, right.
    Rev: ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩ[Σ ΡΟΙΜΗΤΑΛΚΟΥ], jugate bust of Rhoemetalkes I or II, diademed, and queen (Pythodorus?), right.
    Refs: RPC I, 1721; BMC 3.209,23; Sear 5405; Youroukova 201–3, pl. XXIV; Forrer 207.
     
  6. Steven Michael Gardner

    Steven Michael Gardner Well-Known Member

    Oh come on, really... that is all it says & means. I for sure thought there would
    be some words of wisdom to some deity or the gods or something than just
    ID-ing the individuals on the coin...?

    Thank you for the trans!
     
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  7. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    I have always seen these in auctions etc but never as far as I remember with a minting place. Is there no research to point to the mint that produced these?
     
  8. Steven Michael Gardner

    Steven Michael Gardner Well-Known Member

    One of several Thracian mints I'm sure...
     
  9. Voulgaroktonou

    Voulgaroktonou Well-Known Member

    What the replies have not mentioned is that the words of the legends are in the genitive case, that is, indicating possession. So a more accurate translation is [money] of King Rhoemetalkes [and] of Caesar Augustus.
     
  10. juris klavins

    juris klavins Well-Known Member

  11. Steven Michael Gardner

    Steven Michael Gardner Well-Known Member

    Thank you, that is an important addition to this translation...
     
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  12. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    That’s interesting. Most Roman coin legends are in the dative—a kind of dative of respect. Money minted to/for/in recognition of the ruler. I wonder how ancient men and women would’ve understood the role of the genitive or dative case for these legends.
     
  13. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    Stellar examples. Mine isn't nearly as nice.
    Augustus Rhoemetalkes RPC 1711.JPG
     
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  14. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

    The Greek genitive in this context denotes agency: the genitive singular for individuals, the genitive plural for cities (i.e. "the people of..."). Many Greek coins employ the genitive in this fashion. The op follows this traditional formula.

    Roman imperial coins typically name the emperor in the Latin nominative case, while provincials follow suit in Greek. The op is unusual in this respect as a provincial issue but would fit in perfectly with the majority of Hellenistic coins.

    The Latin dative is used occasionally in a commemorative or dedicatory sense (e.g. DIVO CLAVDIO).
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2022
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  15. GregH

    GregH Well-Known Member

    It's a really good idea to learn to read Greek if you're collecting Greek coins.
     
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  16. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    At least the alphabet.
     
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  17. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    That’s helpful information. I guess I should’ve clarified that it’s Roman reverses that are often in the dative. Thanks for the info on the Greek.
     
  18. Voulgaroktonou

    Voulgaroktonou Well-Known Member

    Actually, most Roman coin inscriptions are in the nominative case; there are exceptions, of course, most notably being those of Trajan, where his name and titular are in the dedicatory dative. I have even seen one or two "Greek Imperials" with the emperor's name in the accusative case, but I can not recall from what city.

    If they were literate, contemporary users would have readily understood the grammatical nuances of the use of the oblique (i. e., non-nominative) cases. For Latin and Greek, being inflected languages, the changing ending of nouns obviates the need of prepositions such as "to", "for", "with", etc., upon which English relies to structure a sentence.
     
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