Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by PK2000, Jan 23, 2019.
Since it's close to my field, I am very tempted. But that premium is just too steep.
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I am a coin collector, not an investor. And as a collector, this release makes me sadder than any release ever.
I grew up in Florida as a kid during the Apollo program and was a huge fan of everything NASA. I had moon maps and pictures of astronauts in my bedroom as a kid. Our family used to go watch the launches at Cape Kennedy. So these coins bring back a lot of fond memories for me and would normally be something I would buy for sure and share stories with my kids over them.
But I refuse to be held hostage with these ridiculous political surcharges. $35 surcharge for the gold coin. $10 surcharge for the silver dollar. I'm not paying it. Period. I know that it would leave a bitter, bitter, taste in my mouth every time I took out these coins and looked at them. It's not the money - it's the principle of being bent over a table like that. SOBs. They're turning the United States Mint into the Franklin Mint.
I wish everyone would boycott these coins to put an end to this pernicious practice. I realize that's not going to happen, but I'll be d__ned if I'm going to participate in being part of the problem. YMMV.
The mint is raising money on every sale so that the Smithsonian can try to convey the same sense of wonder and amazement you experienced growing up in Florida during the Apollo program to future kids who may learn about the space program for the very first time they visit the museum. Don't you want to support that? Don't you want them to be able to experience some of the same joy you did?
And imagine, if one of those kids does want to join NASA and even possibly become an astronaut, aren't you ok with a portion of that fee going to help that kid achieve that goal?
I get that no one wants to be TOLD they must support something, but it sounds like you already support those things.
You don't have to if you don't want. You can buy it in the resale market if you want and support some giant online-only bullion huckster instead. Your choice.
I agree that the prices are ridiculous. I bought every coin but the 2 gold ones. I will see what they each look and feel like when I get them, and decide then what to keep and what to return.
The moon landing is also close to my heart and I'm going to keep at least 1 coin that was issued by the USA - the first country in the world to safely land 2 men on the moon and bring them home safely - to commemorate the event. Sure, it's a luxury item to be sure. But sometimes it's okay to splurge on something you like.
Whether it's the $10 surcharge for the silver dollar or the ridiculously hiked up price of the a clad coin which is essentially worthless. It's a momentum, not an investment. Nobody is making me buy it. Its worth to me is in the sentimental value of what it represents. It will probably go on my display shelf. If I keep the silver coin the silver in it will be a small bonus making it more valuable to melt somewhere down the line when my inheritors are not as enamored by the moon landing as I am. People spend tons of money on baseball jerseys of their favorite teams and players. This is what I like. It's definitely expensive. I'm splurging. And I will enjoy the piece I keep for what it is.
Apparently some really liked the proof version because it's currently on back-order.
Hope the UC one stays available all year-round since that's what I bought. Get that nice super low mintage going
i,m a collector so its not always about the value. I ordered the gold, silver and 1/2 proof set. like the my mood says i'm a space nut and love the new design!
I am too. I hope you enjoy them as much as I anticipate enjoying mine!
Which UC one are you talking about? None of these have a low mintage. The Clad is 750k, the Silver Dollar is 400k, the 5oz is 100k, the Kennedy Set is 750k and the Gold is 50k.
Those are authorized maximums. Modern commemoratives rarely hit the maximum (BTW, the Kennedy set maximum is 100K, not 750k)
There are two issues in play when it comes to mintage figures, IMHO.
Traditionally, a low number means greater rarity, and a higher collector value down the road. BU Jackie Robinson gold, anyone?
On the other hand, when there is a sellout, folks that got shut out get frantic and pay flippers a premium to get one. This is usually a short term increase, and prices stabilize after a few years when the supply & demand curves reach equilibrium.
That's my uneducated take on it, anyway.
Ooohhh! Thank you for explaining all that!
What "UC" was he referring to though?
Uncirculated -- The non-proof gold coin.
Also looks like the Kennedy set is now on backorder.
EDIT: Sorry, I guess I could have specified, but was in the context of this thread specifically talking about the gold coins which there are only 2.
Thank you. Now I understand.
I haven't been doing this for very long and it is interesting to me to hear what people's experiences are. I'm not really sure what to invest in and have made mistakes that I only realized after learning more. So I am trying to get a feel from more experienced people in terms of what they are focusing on with the new Apollo issue. Of course much of it is speculation, but there is precedent and experience that people like you have and use, which I don't have. So I appreciate your ideas.
If I understand you correctly, you're hoping that since twice as many people bought the Gold Proof coin, the Gold non-Proof "UC" coin will be worth much more in the long run because of the fewer coins in circulation. Has that been your experience, even with big issues like this one? And if so, how much more of a premium do you think it can bring in?
Also, how much more interest do you think there will be in these coins in July around the actual Anniversary of the Moon Landing? Do you think there will be a new wave of purchases then?
I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with ideas about this. Thanks!
I haven't been doing this, but for just a few months. You do understand correctly what I am hoping for. I love proofs and buy them, but I have seen the UC versions hold or gain more value because the mintage was much lower since anything not sold is melted.
I also got burned on my last (my first) gold purchase that was a proof. The finish had something on it like it wasnt stored correctly. I believe the UC versions will be less susceptible to scrutiny when being graded rather than a proof with the same issue.
But the real takeaway is that I bought the coin because I think it's awesome. I also believe that I justify buying gold coins from the mint differently. I dont see a gold coin as gold with a massive premium over spot; I picture it as investing gold at spot and getting a collectible for the rest. Either gold goes up and the value rises or the collectible goes up and the value rises. No matter what happens it's still worth the price of gold. Unfortunately, silver is impossible to justify that way.
I hear you. I'm sorry about your getting burned. Hopefully your new strategy will work for you!
What you say about the gold makes sense to me. I'm just not as optimistic as you are that gold will always go up, even though it seems to have been doing that for the past 200 years. (And went up tremendously in the past month!) I'm just still not so sure either the gold or the collectible value of a coin will prove to be worthwhile. I'm not sure what will convince me of it, but, I'm still skeptical. I've bought some collectible gold coins that I liked for a tiny bit more than what standard bullion coins cost at the time. But still, I'm not sure it was the right thing to do. You're right that no matter what happens it's still worth the price of gold.
The price difference between the proof and the UC gold coins is so small for this issue that I'm tempted to buy the proof, which is probably why most people did. I'm still undecided whether to get either of the gold coins. It's about half an ounce of gold, and I can get that nice design from the silver coins.
Why do you think it's not possible to justify doing that with silver? Silver is cheap now so the way I see it you can get some really nice collectible coins for a low premium over silver and no matter what, they're still worth the silver.
We'll say gold at $1300 an ounce and $16 for silver.
Gold coin at $408 which is 8.3 grams. It's only 90% though, so 7.47g. That's $312 worth of gold and $96 collectible. That's a premium of 30% over melt.
If we look at silver (.999) and do $55 for a 1oz coin, we end up with only $16 of silver and a collectible at $39. That's a premium of 240% over melt.
There's a difference between collecting and stacking. I stack silver to store. I collect silver coins for the collection. Gold is the only way I can kinda do both. I hope that makes sense as I might be in the minority with this thought.
Edit: You have lots of time to make a decision on what you want to do. I dont believe they are going to sell out so dont panic and buy something you aren't 100% wanting to do.
Edit 2: oh jeez it's late. Lost track of time. Goodnight. lol
Yes, it does make sense.
Yeah, I'm still thinking on it and not deciding yet. I don't think they will sell out either, but I'll keep an eye on the numbers just in case.
Thanks for all the info!
I really like the design and would be willing to pay a reasonable premium for the 5oz silver.....but the mega premium they are asking just kills the sell.
On 1/24 I ordered one of each coin except the 2 gold coins.
Well, I just received the non-proof half dollar clad coin in the mail yesterday and ONLY that one. I was hoping to receive all of them so that I can compare them all and return my least favorite ones.
What a disorganized operation! (Don't say it, I know, I was warned....)
I wonder how much more they are going to spend on postage by shipping my order to me one coin at a time. (No wonder the premiums are so high! Waste makes waste!)
Meanwhile, the non-proof clad half dollar coin is meh. I was kind of disappointed. The impression on the coins in my pocket change seem deeper and more pronounced than on this coin. I'm not even bothering taking and posting a picture. And the coin is smaller than I would have expected. I guess my expectations were too high for this $25.95.
I would guess (hope) the proof one is much nicer, and the silver and silver proof, and the 5-ouncer I wont even see until - what is it now? May, July, do I hear next December?
Awaiting my next shipment...
Your shipping confirmation email should have listed a tracking number under each item you bought. Looking at mine, they are all in a single package arriving tomorrow, but I also ordered every thing on release day at the same time. It's possible your orders got broken out because of supply at that moment.
Okay, so, first, I made a mistake on the date. I ordered them on the 24th, not the 27th. It was the day it came out and I was on the website at noon and it wasn't working properly and I couldn't get my order done until about 12:45 (the confirmation email says 12:42) and at that point the 5-ouncers were already on backorder.
I didn't realize that it gave different tracking numbers, thank you for pointing that out! So, my next shipment is supposed to arrive tomorrow "at the end of the day," which is not going to happen because I'm having it all shipped to work and the building is closing early tomorrow. So, I wont get it until Monday. Why they broke up my shipment, it could be like you said because of supply at that moment. Who knows. I just wish I could have gotten the 5-ouncer together with the rest. Oh well. We can't always get all the toys we want when we want them...
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