This is NOT an obol

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Sulla80, Jul 14, 2021.

  1. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    "Good things come in small packages" - this is certainly the thought I have today with this 0.56 gram coin. Although unusual for Greek coins, sometimes we do have a clue on the coin about the denomination. On this coin, we can read the ΛI on the reverse, below the crab. This mark of value - LI for litra gives clear confirmation that this is NOT an Attic standard obol. On some of these coin there is an additional letter: ΛIT.
    Agrigentum Obol.jpg
    Sicily, Akragas (Agrigentum), circa 450-440 BC, AR litra, (10 mm, 0.56g, 3h).
    Obv: ΑΚ - RΑ, eagle, with closed wings, standing left on Ionic column capital with large volutes, dots at center of volutes
    Rev: ΛΙ Crab
    Ref: HGC 2, 121. Westermark 455-504 (dies appear to be O21/R20)
    Notes: for more on this coin and a bit of historical context see A Litra from Akragas

    I was pleasantly surprised to find the full book online from Ulla Westermark, "The Coinage of Akragas c. 510–406 BC." online (Vol 1. Text & Plates, Vol 2. Catalog). After staring intently at the small images from the plates, my best guess is that the dies O21/R20 match my coin. My coin has volutes on the capital (O20-O25) so it falls in this range of 478.1-486.1 and the description for O21 seems right "thick capital, volutes with dots".

    Post your litrai, coins with crabs or eagles, coins that tell you what denomination they are, or anything else that you find interesting, entertaining and NOT an obol (on second thought, obols are OK too).
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2021
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  3. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    crab & eagles

    P1160017 best.jpg P1140331 (2).JPG
     
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  4. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..love the crab...i ain't got one o dose yet! :)
     
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  5. Pavlos

    Pavlos You pick out the big men. I'll make them brave!

    Interesting, I did not see that before on a litra. Nice coin too!

    I have a couple of coins that somehow show the denomination.

    First, an obvious one, an abbreviation of tetartemorion. Kolophon also did the same for their hemiobols.

    [​IMG]
    Ionia, Kolophon. AR Tetartemorion, circa 500-450 B.C. Persic standard.
    Obverse:
    Facing head of Apollo.
    Reverse: Monogram of TE (mark of value) within incuse square.
    Reference: Milne, Colophon, 7. SNG Kayhan 356.
    0.25g; 7mm
    Ex Münzen & Medaillen GmbH 36, 30 May 2012, 412.
    Ex Münzen & Medaillen GmbH 30, 28 May 2009, 476.

    [​IMG]

    Ionia, Kolophon. AR Tetartemorion, circa 450-410 B.C. Persic standard.
    Obverse:
    Laureate head of Apollo to right.
    Reverse: Monogram of TE (mark of value) within square incuse
    Reference: Milne, Colophon, 31. SNG Kayhan 358.
    0.32g; 7mm

    Then a bronze coin that shows it denomination by a ΔX monogram. Δ being the 4th letter of the Greek alphabet, followed by X for χαλκοῦς (Attic Greek) or χάλκεος (Ionic Greek), meaning Chalkous. In other words a tetrachalkon.
    See a write up about this special coin here: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/special-seleukid-elephant-coin-from-ekbatana.343802/

    [​IMG]
    Alexander I Balas (152/1-145 BC). AE Tetrachalkon. Ekbatana mint, 150-147 B.C.
    Obverse:
    Diademed and draped bust of Alexander Balas right.
    Reverse: BAΣIΛEΩΣ AΛEΞANΔPOY ΘEOΠATOPOΣ EYEPΓETOY (“of King Alexander, Son of a Divine Father and Benefactor”). Elephant standing right; ΔX monogram above.
    Reference: SC 1876; HGC 9, 894.
    6.28g; 21mm

    Then this is a quite unusual way to show the denomination of small silver fractions. I can imagine it must be hard for an ancient person to see the difference between an obol and a hemiobol (or other tiny fractions). Perhaps the locals were familiar about the design for each denomination and could separate it this way. But let's say there is a traveler, who has no clue about this and is new to the poleis, what then? Boeotia had a plan.

    An Obol shows a full shield on the obverse:

    [​IMG]
    Boeotia, Tanagra. AR Obol. Early-mid 4th century B.C.
    Obverse:
    Boeotian shield.
    Reverse: Τ-Α Forepart of a horse to right; below, grape bunch.
    Reference: BCD Boeotia 297. SNG Copenhagen 227.
    0.71g; 10mm

    But a hemiobol, being half of an obol, could be differentiated by a half shield!
    I think it is the first time I show this coin on the forum:

    upload_2021-7-15_21-54-27.png
    Boeotia, Thebes. AR Hemiobol. Circa 405-395 BC.
    Obverse:
    Half Boeotian shield.
    Reverse: Grape bunch on vine.
    Reference: BCD Boiotia 464b.
    0.33g; 8.5mm
    Ex. CNG, E-Auction 344, lot 60

    Boeotia went really far and even did 3x a half shield for a trihemiobol (not mine):
    [​IMG]
    https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=84391

    Should we go even further?
    [​IMG]
    One shield and a half for a Trihemitetartemorion
    https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=75370

    I guess they were extremely unpopular hence the extreme rarity.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2021
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  6. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Nice examples!

    Here's my lone Akragas hemilitron, circa 409-406 BCE.

    Sicily, circa 409-406 BC
    Akragas
    Æ Hemilitron
    Eagle standing right with wings spread, clutching dead hare in talons; barleycorn to right, AKPA upwards below wings / Crab; hippocamp to right below, six pellets around. CNS 17; HGC 2, 133 (same obverse die as illustration?). 22.73g, 32mm, 9h.

    Lot 274, Roma E-Sale 71

    D-Camera Akragas AE Hemilitron c409-406BC CNS Roma 71,274 22.73g 7-15-21.jpg
     
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  7. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Of course. There is an unfortunate tendency for coin people to force Athenian terms on everyone. This is a litra.
    g20362bb2675.jpg

    I wish I had the set in Akragas but moving to the more common Syracuse:
    This is 6/12 of a litra.
    g20410bb2035.jpg

    This is 2/12 litra.
    g20420bb0595.jpg

    And the controversial one: This is a 20 litra (not a tetradrachm). They made 50 litra biggies but you will always find them Attified into 'dekadrachm'. This is a little like me quoting prices in US dollars using numbers of Euro or Pounds.
    g20430bb0480.jpg
     
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  8. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Great dinky coin, @Sulla80 !

    LITRAE (BRONZE)

    Half-Litra
    upload_2021-7-15_16-30-32.png
    Roman Republic
    Anon
    234-231 BCE
    AE 1/2 litra
    15mm 2.2g
    Rome mint
    Laur Apollo -
    ROMA in ex horse rearing
    Craw 26-3 Syd29


    Litra
    upload_2021-7-15_16-33-29.png
    Roman Republic
    Anon
    AE Litra
    241-235 BCE
    Mars Beardless
    Horse Head
    Craw 25-3 Sear 594


    Double-Litra
    upload_2021-7-15_16-35-35.png
    Roman Republic
    Anon
    AE Double-Litra
    275-270 BCE
    Apollo
    Lion
    Sear 590 Craw 16-1a
     
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  9. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    LITRAE (SILVER)

    Sicily Selinus
    upload_2021-7-15_17-4-11.png
    Sicily Selinus
    AR Litra
    400 BCE
    10mm 0.67g
    Nymph on rock touching serpent Selinon leaf -
    Man-faced bull
    Mildenberg 27


    Sicily Kamarina
    upload_2021-7-15_17-4-50.png
    Sicily Kamarina
    AR litra
    11mm 0.56g
    461-440 BCE
    Nike flying swan below within wreath
    Athena spear shield
    SNG ANS 1212-6


    Sicily Gela
    upload_2021-7-15_17-5-25.png
    Sicily Gela
    AR Litra
    0.63g 13mm
    465-450 BCE
    Horse-
    Achelous
    HGC 2 p 373


    Carthage - occupied Sicily
    upload_2021-7-15_17-6-11.png
    Carthage - Sicily
    AR Litra
    4th C BCE
    9.5mm 0.65g
    Palm Tree
    Horse Head
    SNG Cop 74
    Ex: EE Clain-Safanelli RARE
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2021
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  10. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    CRAB / EAGLE

    Akragas - Onkia (1/12 Litra)

    upload_2021-7-15_16-52-9.png
    Sicily Akragas
    AE Onkia
    16mm 3.8g
    425-406 BCE
    Eagle r fish fly -
    Crab conch
    SNG ANS 1062 var
     
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  11. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ><
     
  12. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    The speed with which a diverse set of coins can appear here is always impressive!
    @Andres2 & @robinjojo both very nice bronzes of Akragas!
    Great parade of examples,@Pavlos, and the coins for easy tourist translation are brilliant. Who wouldn't recognize a Trihemitetartemorion, so nicely encoded?
    A good looking litra and the dot encoded coins and "NOT a tetradrachm" are great illustrations.
    The full litrai collection! if I can stop laughing about your technical description: "dinky coin" or "μικροσκοπικό νόμισμα", I will absorb more fully. The Gela Horse-Achelous with wreath-antlers, catches my eye.
     
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  13. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Thank you Sir. :)
     
  14. Kavax

    Kavax Well-Known Member

    The last Litra of Akragas just before it's destruction by the Carthaginians

    AkraLitra_Final.jpg
    Sicily, Akragas, Litra, ca. 406 BC. AR (g 0,68; mm 12; h 9).
    AKPA, Eagle standing l. on rock outcrop, tearing at snake held in talons;
    Rv. Crab; A below.
    Westermark, Coinage, 608; HGC 2, 114.

    @Alegandron : i remember that i had planned to bid on your Litra Palm tree/ Horse Head but i have missed the auction ;) nice coin.
     
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  15. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Thank you, I was thrilled to capture it.
     
  16. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    AE Triens with mark of value
    Lucania, Paestum (Poseidonia), ca. 218 - 200 BC
    15 mm, 4.240 g
    HN (Italy) 1232; Crawford, Paestum 22/2
    Ob.: Laureate female head right; •••• (mark of value) at left
    Reverse: ΠAIΣ Cornucopia,CN• EV

    upload_2021-7-16_0-1-13.png upload_2021-7-16_0-1-28.png
     
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