The lack of consistency in bullion is infuriating

The worst is the Chinese Gold Panda: can't decide between ounces or grams. Face value is inconsistent.

From 1982 to 2015, China used ounces. From 2016 they've used grams.
From 1982 to 2000 the 1 oz gold Panda had a face value of 100 yuan. From 2001 to 2015 it was 500.*

From 2016 to the present, the 3 gram gold panda has a value of 50 yuan, but the 15 gram panda has a value of 200?!
It should be 250.

The Americans and the Canadians are also guilty of a bunch of inconsistent nonsense.

The Americans: Put other metals in their gold and use inconsistent face values.

The Americans put a bunch of ugly copper and silver into their gold, only increasing the possibility that the coin will copper spot. And consequently, the 1 oz gold eagle now must weigh over 1 ounce so that they can fit an ounce of gold into the coin. When I buy a one ounce coin I don't want it to weigh nearly 1.1 ounces!

The 1/10 ounce Gold Eagle has a face value of $5. The 1 oz has a face value of $50. But the 1/4 ounce has a face value of $10?! It should be $12.50.

The Canadians: same face value problems as the Americans, but at least they don't put copper and silver in their gold coins.

 

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I mean considering the "face value" of the coin is completely inconsequential compared to the metal value, I don't see how it matters in the least.

What is more annoying to me, is the way different countries get to a troy ounce. Be it 0.999, 0.9999, or how South Africa does it with it being 91.67% AU and the remainder being copper so that it is bigger than a normal troy ounce.

I wish everyone would use one standard purity, 0.9999% and keep them a standard size/weight.

But that would be way too much work so I don't expect it to happen haha.

 

I couldn’t agree more. I can’t speak to the world gold. However US bullion releases since 1986 have been an exercise in confusion. While I agree that the denomination given to them is somewhat meaningless, in my mind it would have been more comprehensible had they kept to pre-33 gold standards.

 

what is the use of buying gold less than .999 pure?

 

Do you include US gold coins? or other world gold like sovereigns, roosters, ducats etc?

 

With all the choices in gold bullion, including US and foreign gold coins, if one is frustrated than perhaps they should not be investing in this area. You can not be frustrated, driven to the point of calling it annoying or anything else and make wise decisions regarding your future, your money or your life.

If you allow this to happen then you will loose.

 

@myownprivy @furryfrog02 @Randy Abercrombie

Reading your comments, I'm reminded of a passage in Roger Burdette's book, From Mint To Mint. Roger explains that employees at the Mint facilities who routinely handled gold, from its raw to its finished form, were required to change into work clothes before their shift began and deposit these work clothes in a designated place at the end of their shift. These clothes were then burned to recover the gold particles that would cling to the fabric.

Chris

 

It makes no difference to me if it's 999 or 9999 or 9999. But it makes a big difference if it's less than 99% (i.e. pure).

It's a shame so many Americans are duped into buying 91.67% gold Eagles. It's not jewelry! It's not circulating money! It doesn't need to be super durable. So all it does is make the coin bigger than it needs to be with the inferior copper and silver added to it that only makes it more likely to copper spot.

The same goes for the silly historical reasons of the respective mints still pumping out ducats and sovereigns. There is no need for the alloy. Make it pure gold.

Thankfully, the Eagle is not as bad as the Ducat or Sovereign because the Eagle still reaches full, common fractions (tenth, quarter, half, and full ounce). So I respect that. I simply find the other metals unnecessary.

The worst is the .11 nonsense actual god weight on the ducat or that .23whatever-less-than-a-quarter-ounce agw on the sovereign. I am good at math, but if I own 10 ducats I want it to be an ounce. If I own 4 sovereigns I want it to be an ounce.

Again, we come back to the mighty Maple: it is only gold .9999. It has common fractions (1/10, 1/4, 1/2, full ounce). And it has impenetrable security features: privy mark + radial lines + basic specs of weight/diameter/width/art+ the RCM DNA technology.

 

I like my 1oz Maples but I LOVE my British Sovereigns. If nothing more than for the history behind them.

 

Good reason to stick solely with American Gold Eagles, at least for me. Boring for sure, but understandable for the mathematically challenged.

 

I highly agree the US Mint jumped the shark in 1986 not simply keeping our historical values.

However, for the rest of it, I do not see any compunction in only buying .999 gold. The cost per ounce for refining would be miniscule versus its value, unlike silver. My preference in gold is old circulating coinage, but that is just me.

Refining cost is a large concern for silver, especially stuff like 40% and the like, but not really an issue for gold.

 

The American Gold Eagle was made 22kt (91.666%) gold to copy the top-selling gold coin in the world in 1985 - the South African Krugerrand, rather than copy the gold Maple Leaf at .999 fine that came out in 1979.
It was all about marketing.
As long as I get an ounce of gold, I don't care the fineness. U.S. gold pre-1933 is 90%, and no one seems to have a problem with that. And it's even less than an ounce in a $20 coin.

 

It's not about refining costs for me, because I know I can sell back a gold Maple as easily as a Gold Eagle. It's about copper spotting. I tend to avoid impure gold because of that risk.

 

I have never tried to sell a world bullion round. I have had the opportunity to purchase them a few times and always turned the deal down. Is world bullion as liquid as US bullion?

 

Only the top brand names.

 

Yeah, pretty much that. Krugerrands, Britannias, Kanagroos, Philharmonics, and anything else from those major mints in normal fractions are just fine.

 

Liquidity is not a major concern for me. It's there, but if possible I prefer to double dip on my bullion purchases, enjoying them as coins as well as having a bullion asset. If I get collecting value out of the purchase, I can afford to be owning a little less liquid coins.

 

It isn’t for me either. My PM’s go to my kids when I leave the party..... I been schooled in US stuff for a half a decade. The folks I know and trade with deal in US stuff. I have turned away from world gold deals even just recently only because I’m not schooled in them. But it’s a changing world out there. Heck, for all I know it may be easier to liquidate world gold these days. That was more the basis of my question.

 

World gold does not liquidate as quickly as US gold. At least that's been my experience. That said, there are exceptions to the rule but when I buy world gold, I go in knowing that it won't sell as easily as US bullion. I learned my lesson with Mexican gold, glad I didn't sell as dealers were trying to put the gyp to me.

 

I've purchased some Libertads over the years as well, but only when close to spot. The best bet is to sell to another individual and bypass the dealers. It's a similar situation to Pandas, as the markup is substantial on the primary market, but disappears completely on the secondary market. Thus, you must go directly to another primary buyer through ebay, craigslist, coinshows, etc.