So what's up, anybody here buying gold or trying hard to sell your gold?

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by fretboard, Sep 15, 2015.

  1. Brett_in_Sacto

    Brett_in_Sacto Well-Known Member

    This is my approach as well. I don't buy like clockwork. I buy the low end of the price spectrum, I watch for the dips and discounts - and on the big breakthroughs I will double down. I do try to buy some every month from various sources.

    Speaking of sources, I've been using JM Bullion for quite a while now and it seems as though their product lines differ greatly based on bullion pricing.

    I've noticed their premiums are WAY up (used to pay as little as 79 cents over spot per oz on 1oz bars in bulk) and when spot dips below a certain point, they tend to pull their bargain brand bullion - and especially the pre-33 gold (not that their prices have been competitive).

    Things just disappear from the online catalog during price dips, so when I'm ready to make a buy - they are "out of stock" (wink wink, nudge nudge).

    To me bullion is bullion. I tend to buy the least expensive "well known" marks, and occasionally will buy in on ASE's in bulk when the premium is attractive enough. I know some people pay top dollar for PAMP and others, but I won't.

    JM lost my sale last week when it dipped. I was ready to buy good quantity of Sunshine Mint 1oz bars and they were pulled from the catalog. Part of my buy this month was ASE's at substantially under premium. I did find I had a coupon on Ebay that got me 10% off "anything" and used it with Apmex's ASE special and ended up with an out the door price of $16.37 on ASE's (including cash back on CC - which I PAID OFF already!)
     
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  3. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    With today's dip I now own another 50 oz. JM has a lot of designs with various prices. They charge like $2.50 over spot and that's a lot less than others. I'm with Brett, bullion is bullion, especially when you go to sell.
     
    Brett_in_Sacto likes this.
  4. Silver Boozer

    Silver Boozer New Member

    I have a question regarding gold bullion vs numismatic gold coin value. I know that some gold coins like the Eagles fluctuate with the bullion prices, why would, lets say a 2.50 or 5.00 Indian head gold coin not increase or decrease with the prices? I ask because I am getting interested in buying these coins and am wondering if there was a good or bad time to buy them. Thanks, John
     
  5. NorthKorea

    NorthKorea Dealer Member is a made up title...

    Brett, curious point on Pamp. I used to buy the 1 oz ingots with a premium based upon how low the number was. It paid off. I got a 200% premium on a five digit selling. :D

    Oh, and Inflexion, I know what you're saying, but it doesn't work is my point.

    DCA means you buy the same dollar amount regardless of price.

    Let's say the price is $25 and you think the bottom is $20, so you start to DCA $500 per purchase (say every quarter).

    Q1 $23 (21 oz)
    Q2 $22 (22 oz)
    Q3 $21 (23 oz)
    Q4 $20 (25 oz)
    Q5 $21 (23 oz)
    Q6 $20 (25 oz)
    Q7 $18 (27 oz)
    Q8 $16 (31 oz)
    Q9 $20 (25 oz)
    Q10 $23 (21 oz)
    Q11 $25 (20 oz)
    Q12 $22 (22 oz)
    Q13 $20 (25 oz)
    Q14 $20 (25 oz)
    Q15-Q20 $25 (120 oz)
    Q1-Q20 (455 oz)

    If you just bought on Qs when price was $20 or below:
    Q4 $20 (100 oz)
    Q6 $20 (50 oz)
    Q7 $18 (27 oz)
    Q8 $16 (31 oz)
    Q9 $20 (25 oz)
    Q13 $20 (100 oz)
    Q14 $20 (25 oz)
    Q1-Q20 (368 oz + $3000 cash)

    So, even if you had less ounces at the end of Q20, you would still be price ahead, since $3000 cash buys 120 oz @ $25.

    Edit: Yes, you might miss a bottom, but you also end up buying more at the bottoms than otherwise. Also, given you watch silver daily, you could actually buy on intra-quarter lows, if the price dropped below $20 sometime during Q14-Q20, which wouldn't happen with DCA. DCA is essentially a version of forced savings, which helps those who usually have trouble saving, but is inefficient for those trying to gauge a bottom range.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2015
  6. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Try 40 years of it sir. That is what I have had to sit through. In the mid 70's salesmen were preaching how OPEC would own all houses in the US and we would be a tenant country except for any PM we happened to own. Every generation has their own fears that some feel only holding PM will fix.

    Myself, I am buying gold coins I always wanted but stopped buying when gold got stupid. I am a long term holder and a hoarder, so don't really care what pm does as long as I get to play with my shiny things. My heirs will worry about what to do with Dad's "crap".
     
  7. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Its always tough. Especially the $2.50 doesn't have much to do with gold prices. The $5 more so, but still is a numismatic item more so than bullion unless its XF or cleaned.
     
    Silver Boozer likes this.
  8. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Yes, but what if it started upwards and never dropped into the $20's. Then you miss the entire surge. I think @InfleXion is smart DCAing. I would say he is much smarter than 90+% of those who were enthusiastic about pm a few years ago. He is still here, still buys, and that is a huge win for him. MOst people who got excited about pm are long gone, and either sold for a loss or still have $40 silver they are sitting on. He is one of the few smart ones who stick with it and is DCAing lower.

    He an I have our different views of the world, but I respect his opinion and listen to him since he is still here. If i disagree with him I need to understand why I do, lest I myself fall into a mental comfort zone. That counts for a lot in my book.
     
    InfleXion likes this.
  9. Brett_in_Sacto

    Brett_in_Sacto Well-Known Member

    The prices do fluctuate, but they do not decrease at the same rate as bullion due to supply and demand. Anyone can buy modern gold bullion / gold eagles. Pre-33 US gold is limited supply - they aren't making any more (except in China - but that's another thread).

    So the prices do fluctuate. I remember paying $400ish for a nice raw XF/AU quarter eagle a couple years ago. This year I've been picking up graded AU/MS for $300 range.

    Numismatic value is real value based on trend and population of the coins. Obviously the premiums will go up as gold prices increase.

    As an example the $10 Gold Eagle (Indian Head) is ~16.7 grams at 90% purity.

    Today's spot price is $1133 (just checked) 90% of the 16.7 = $547 gold value. I'd doubt if you can find one at that price. There's a premium - but a lot for sale due to covering and bailing out. The last one I bought - I paid $620 (Gold was at ~$1200) and then had it graded, came back AU58 giving it a fair sales value of ~$800

    The last point on this is that a LOT of people have had to sell to cover themselves - or they've given up on coins/PM altogether. Supply is great, demand is weak. As this changes, the premiums on pre-33 gold will accelerate much faster than spot price increases (my opinion).
     
    Silver Boozer likes this.
  10. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Most people just look at the last 4 years. Silver was at $48.00 plus and it's gone up and down since then but in a downward trend. If you just look at silver's chart all you see is down so the reasoning is, Why should I buy when it's just going down?

    You must look at other things, like the economy, unemployment, supply and demand, the world view to name a few. One day silver is going to take off and when that happens it will be too late to buy. It's like wind in a wildfire. There are 4 web sites that I buy from and all 4 of them are out of stock on numerous silver bullion. If it's cheap and dropping and these companies are making money at $2.50 to $5.00 over spot why wouldn't they keep themselves in stock? Answer, they can't get it from their suppliers. Some silver bullion items are a 3 month delay in shipping.

    That tells me that the supply is dwindling and demand is growing. It also speaks to me politically but I'll not go there. Another thing that tells me is to buy, buy and buy. It's less than $15.00 an ounce. I'm in good health and the unspoken rule of thumb is PM's will go up at least 3 times during your life. It's happen twice in mine and I've caught them both. The price has dropped $33.00 in the last 4 years. It may drop more but before I die I'm sure it will go up a lot higher than today's purchase price. If not, then my heirs know to hold onto it until it does go up. After all, it didn't cost them anything to buy it. You have to spend money to make money.

    I have my coin collections, rocks, gems, minerals, precious and semi-precious stones (raw & cut), sea shells, antiques and a bunch of other things that make me happy. I also have my PM's. I can't take any of it with me but I do enjoy them. :)
     
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  11. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    My concern with "buying the dips" is that they look exactly like the first part of an extended drop -- until the price goes back up. In other words, "buying the dips" is great, but requires fortune-telling.
     
    imrich likes this.
  12. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    I regularly follow, bid/buy the $5 Indian certified coins. probably at a rate of at least a couple/week. I believe you'll generally find the certified XF or cleaned coin being sold at a premium to the PCGS "price guide" value listing.

    JMHO
     
    Silver Boozer likes this.
  13. ThinnPikkins

    ThinnPikkins Well-Known Member

    Apmex is selling a 1oz bar @ spot today on ebay ($1135), just a heads up to anyone looking to grab ahold of some. I just got mine @1035 with a 10% off coupon (up to 100 dollars).
     
    Brett_in_Sacto likes this.
  14. Brett_in_Sacto

    Brett_in_Sacto Well-Known Member

    That is seriously the deal of the month!!! Especially with today's price pop!!!
     
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  15. Teddydogno1

    Teddydogno1 Well-Known Member

    I don't think I've ever been given a 10% off eBay coupon.

    The other day with a 5x "bonus bucks" offer, I bought a Netherlands 10 Gulden gold coin for under spot after bonus bucks. Only .1907 AGW.

    R0b
     
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  16. autograf

    autograf Member

    5X is basically the same thing as a 10% off but you just get the money back in bonus--right? They've been gypping me lately with just 4X's......still have a day or two on my $20 coupon. But it's not good on coins for some reason. I'll have to switch gears to baseball cards--my other passion and pick up something I need there.......
     
  17. Silver Boozer

    Silver Boozer New Member

    got my $20 coupon too and 4x ebay bucks also. Plus there giving me great deals to start selling again as I have not sold anything in a while. John
     
  18. Brett_in_Sacto

    Brett_in_Sacto Well-Known Member

  19. mercedes86david

    mercedes86david New Member

    im not buying at the moment, trying to keep up winter cash
     
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