Slabbing modern bullion coins?

I'm sitting on early "80's proofs for Libertad's, what's the point..??

 

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[quote="midas1, post: 1797552, member: 21309
I've explained why I buy PCGS 70 coins when possible. It has worked for me and I enjoy handling the coins, researching them, etc. And they are a good investment.

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You need to explain that "good investment" statement further. I don't know which 70 coins you bought or when you bought them but auction archives say that statement is generally false.
I picked a 2005 PCGS proof 70 ASE at random and did an auction archives search at Heritage. I made sure there were no first strikes included, all the coins were the same. In recent 2013 auctions the coin sold for an average of right at 90 dollars. I went back to 2010 and guess what, the average selling price was 125 dollars. If you go back even further you can find some that sold for well over 150 dollars.
To me, that coin was definitely not a good investment. Yes, some 70 coins from the 80's and 90's that are lower pops may be holding their own but generally speaking 70 prices show a slow steady decline after the initial surge when the coin first comes on the market.

 

Not every dealer does, but a lot of the big boys do. You know....... the ones that run the full page adds in Coin World and Numismatic News. What the big boys do (and what the smaller dealers can't be bothered with) is to buy eagles in bulk and send them into the grading services in bulk. By buying in bulk they save a ton of money over what the average buyer pays for these. Their relationship with the grading services is much more amiable than with what you or I would experience if we were to send our meager holdings in. On top of that (with the bulk submission) they may specify that anything under a 70 or 69 grade not be holdered which further saves them money. I'm not sure what the percentages of '69 and '70 coins is that come back to these fellows but it must be pretty high because they do it year after year and they'll probably continue do it (year after year) as long as the fish are biting........

 

+1

And may I add... there are many collectors/gift givers that do not purchase directly from the Mint. I have seen it time and time again at the LCS.
Why do people buy off the cable sales channels/shows? As far as premium/mark up you can't get any worse than these gentlemen (and that is aside from slabs)! I believe that there are collectors who are not as 'avid' as we are and the ones who buy as a gift that 'fall' for the sales tactic.

 

I will state that bulk submissions can have a minimum grade standard, the highest the minimum grade the TPG's will allow is 69. Basically anything less than a 69 does not get graded and is sent back to the submitter raw.

There are a couple things to look at. The first would be set building and competing with other set builders. While many look at this as a waste of money, to them it's a competition and probably some fun (or maybe), but complaining about them, their hobby and collection is bad on you. (I've done the same, but come to realize that it continues and who am I to judge) The other thing that has been mentioned is guarantee that it's real, which isn't really all that bad of an idea. I'm not a fan of this for common bullion coins, but for more rare items, where the threat to copy because of value is there isn't really all that bad of a plan....

 

Hey, PP? They wanna collect slabbed bullion it's all and well good with me. Like you, I can understand the reasons some folks do it, and you're right.....sometimes we do come down a little hard on the slabbies.

 

"but its not a good investment, its a terrible investment. as soon as people start doing what you do in larger numbers the bubble will burst and your coins will be worthless. an "MS70" bullion coin means nothing because bullion coins arent circulated. your coins arent worth more than spot unless your can find a buyer and i doubt you will.]]You need to explain that "good investment" statement further. I don't know which 70 coins you bought or when you bought them but auction archives say that statement is generally false."

M>If you read my messages you would see of the examples I posted that clearly show enhanced prices for my PCGS 70 graded coins. All examples are for coins that I own.

"no offense but your coins arent worth a cent over melt unless you have a buyer lined up. I highly doubt you will find a buyer willing to pay 1,500 for a coin when anyone can just buy plain coin and get it graded themselves.i mean its not like bullion coins are hard to get in good condition right? Its not like they ever get used or circulated"

M>No offense taken. Believe me there is a market and buyers for my graded coins. Higher end graded coins are a different market from going to your LCS and buying a proof set or a generic ASE or AGE.


This technique will work until it doesn't. Eventually, markets built on speculation over low quality investments collapse. Hopefully when the stabbed modern bubble bursts, it won't take the rest of the coin market down with it.

?????

M>PCGS has been around for almost thirty years there is no evidence they are going out of business anytime soon.

"but its not a good investment, its a terrible investment. as soon as people start doing what you do in larger numbers the bubble will burst and your coins will be worthless."

M>If you think PCG graded coins are a terrible investment how do you explain the enhanced prices for my PCGS graded coins?

"You need to explain that "good investment" statement further. I don't know which 70 coins you bought or when you bought them but auction archives say that statement is generally false."

M>Look at the examples I posted.

10/5/13 7:04pm EST
some current sell prices:

2011 five coin ASE set mint pkg$690.00
pcgs ER ms70 $1,300.00

2012s ASE coin set mint pkg$190.00
pcgs ER ms70 $499.00

2013 ASE coin set mint pkg $189.00
pcgs 70 $329.00


10/5/13 7:17PM EST
I bought five 2011 ASE sets from the mint for appx $1,500.00
Sent the unopened box to NGC for grading, cost was appx $200.0o
Three sets came back early release MS70 which at the time were valued $1,500.oo each.
The two other sets came back ER MS69 which are worth about the same as Mint pkg.
I spent appx $1,750.00 and have coins selling for appx $5,200.00. Grading works for me.

Notice PCGS MS70 2009 UHR gold coins sold for several hundred dollars more then the ungraded coin:
tinyurl.com/pj38l66
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If I want to spend the evening researching, handling, viewing my coins I pull out a PGCS storage box and do it. No flips or 2x2s to fool with, no OGP to fumble with.
Inventory is a snap, if I kept an inventory.

Where do you guys store all of the OGP?

I need some advice- a couple of years ago I bought a really nicely carved Hobo Nickel that's about 75 years old. Unfortunately, it's got about 74 years of crud on it.
I'm considering putting it in the dishwasher for a couple of washes or putting it in a pant pocket the washing the pants. Of course there is the old stand by of brass
polish and emery cloth. LOL!

 

I buy them if I can flip them...why not take advantage of an opportunity? That stated, to each their own....

 

hey midas i apologize, i acted like a bit of a jerk in my previous posts. I still fail to see how graded bullion is a good investment but to each their own i guess.

 

Excellent point. However, I can't bring myself to sell any of them even some of the 2011 five coin ASE sets. I have an eBay buyer account but have never sold anything on the Bay. Besides, I really don't want to deal with the eBay headaches. Might try Craigslist. I don't need the money but could use it to buy other coins or currency.

 

No problem colinf, if you review the UHR Gold link I posted and review the ASE prices I posted it might make sense. OTOH, it doesn't matter because we all buy what we enjoy.

I started out buying graded coins because I was spending some big bucks (for me) on gold coins and was more confident buying graded gold coins. Then I discovered how easy it is to organize and store them I was hooked.
Silver E CC posted a picture of his 2011 five ASE set. The package they come in is pretty huge
but the five graded coins take up very little space.

I've got a closet almost filled with coin OGP that I don't like to think about.

 

"I need some advice- a couple of years ago I bought a really nicely carved Hobo Nickel that's about 75 years old. Unfortunately, it's got about 74 years of crud on it.
I'm considering putting it in the dishwasher for a couple of washes or putting it in a pant pocket the washing the pants. Of course there is the old stand by of brass
polish and emery cloth. LOL!"

That was a spoof. I'd never do the above to coins, but I do have a very nice dirty old Hobo nickel.

 

Graded coins fit nicely in my safety deposit box as well, but getting back to slabbing standard bullion coins. I own about 10 or so Standard MS70 bullion coins but I understand what collinf is saying. People are paying Big Money for Standard Early dated Silver Bullion Coins in MS70 condition when there are hundreds of unopened monster boxes of these Bullion Coins out there still un-graded.

So the population reports on Standard Bullion Silver Coins will change over the years and pops will go up. So we go back to Buyer's Choice on what grade to buy and why ! I say keep collecting fun and I am always interested in viewing a friends collection.

 

More speculation to which Collinf refers. He makes a valid point as to 'bubbles'. Hence the warning and prudence not to 'invest' in such things. Ya like it ya buy it, but for Gods sake don't 'invest' here........

 

"So we go back to Buyer's Choice on what grade to buy and why !"

Come on guys, look at the coins I've described they are not "Standard Early dated Silver Bullion Coins in MS70 condition when there are hundreds of unopened monster boxes of these Bullion Coins out there still un-graded." They are all limited mintage. All of them.

I agree completely re: your statement hundreds of unopened monster boxes of bullion coins.

 

I'm not bashing you midas1 ~ I'm getting back to the thread "Grading Modern Bullion Coins"

 

I'm not saying you can't make money on them, you can, short term. If you sell them now you'll realize a nice profit.
However, hold on to them for five years or so and see where the prices are then. History says they'll likely only go down from here.
To me that's not a good investment.

 

I got $3900 on ebay, was happy with that lol

 

Not sure what's hard to understand. There will come a tipping point where enough people understand that these coins are a bad value, and they will stop buying them. The premiums for these coins will cease to exist. Some of the dealers whose business model depends on selling slabbed bullion will go out of business. It's bound to happen IMO.

 

this. when enough people understand "MS70 rare" bullion means simply buying alot and having them all graded knowing a few will get graded high the market will collapse. AlsoI'd wager that most of the "rare" graded bullion is simply rare because most people dont bother to get their bullion graded. Once more consumers realize that bullion can be worth serious bucks the market will be flooded with "MS70" bullion and the bubble will burst.