Slab Vs Air-Tites Vs Sealed Heavy Vinyl, So Why Then Does My Silver Tarnish ?

Was out buying some more Silver today at a coin shop across town and got
In to a debate about toning and tarnishing of Silver in a slab or so called
Air-Tite coin holders but you could say the same thing for Heavy vinyl like
The ones used for 10 OZ bars the type that i collect.

This debate started over a certified coin, i believe it was a Morgan dollar
That was heavily tarnished And it was "BUTT UGLY" but it did have a A/U
Grade, i mentioned that it must got the ugly toning in the slab, he told me
That a coin like that is highly desired and that coins dont tone in slabs, my
Response to that, was " i got some ocean front property in Arizona, are you
Interested ? i think i pissed him off as he walked away and i left the store
With out buying anything from him.

I have seen coins tone in slabs as well as air-tites and 10 OZ bars in sealed
In heavy vinyl, so i wont be returning to that store anytime soon !

If anybody has any examples please post them and help me prove my point...LOL

 

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Prove your point to who?

 

The dealer is trying to talk it up to get rid of the coin, now if you were trying to sell to the dealer. That the same coin would be the worst thing he ever saw and will give you 12 x face for it.

 

Slabs and other types of holders will slow down toning but not stop it. Some slabs are known to create a certain toning look. Silver just wants to tone.

 

This is for sure a great debate ! many swear up and down that Silver will not
Tone in a air-tite environment including this coin dealer that I went to...LOL

 

Well since it was an AU Morgan that was graded it was likely a better date and it very well could have been a desirable original looking coin.

As far as coins toning in slabs well it depends. Most coins won't stored properly with newer slabs. Some older slabs are known to create toning but there's also plenty of coins that have been in slabs for years both toned and blast white that have had no visible change.

 

Yeah, you're correct but the dealer knows that. You insulted him in his store. I'd walk away too. He's trying to sell an ugly coin and he'll say anything to dump it as you obviously are not a regular customer of his. If you were, I think he would have laughed at you beachfront line. So what are you trying to prove and to whom are you trying to prove it? Yourself? The dealer sure doesn't care if you're right or not.

 

Okay, there is something that you have all neglected to consider, and before you question what I am about to tell you please bear in mind that I am a Master organic chemist and I know what I am talking about. Air-tight does not mean chemical-free. All of the plastics used to seal coins and other such items from the atmosphere expose those same items to the chemical composition of the plastic material itself. So-called 'vinyl' is correctly named polyvinylchloride, made by polymerizing vinyl chloride. That plastic very naturally contains chlorine in its molecular structure, and that is capable of reacting with metals of all kinds, including coins. The result is that the coin surfaces begin to tarnish from the moment they come into contact with the plastic. Other plastics such as lucite are also capable of undergoing very slow reactions with metals. Any polyester plastic, for example, is formed ostensibly from the reaction of an acid and an alcohol. More usually, however, the reaction occurs between an acid chloride and an alcohol. In the former case water is formed as a by-product of the reaction, and in the latter case it is hydrogen chloride (commonly known as hydrochloric acid). While the residual amounts of these materials that may actually be present in the plastic are very small, they are nevertheless present, and over time they will cause tarnishing of any metals that are in contact with them. So, the short answer is yes, your coins will tarnish, or tone, over time when stored in plastic air-tites, slabs, or whatever, and there ain't a darned thing you can do about it.

 

So, then, what chemical is in those cardboard Whitman books that makes the coins tarnish. (Sorry, haven't yet gotten my photo act together).

 

Cardboard is a lot more than just cellulose fibers pressed together. Cellulose itself is chemically related to reactive things called aldehydes, which are only slightly removed from being acids like those used to make polyesters. Cellulose also contains a large number of 'hydroxyl' groups (a hydrogen atom attached to an oxygen atom). These can, and do, have the ability to act as very weak acids by separating the hydrogen atom from the oxygen atom, and to simply form an attraction between the oxygen atoms and the metal atoms of the coin. There are also residual traces of the chlorine or peroxide bleaches used in the original processing of the cellulose fibers, and more importantly, there is whatever 'glue' (for lack of a better word) that has been used to bind the fibers together when they are pressed together into the cardboard stock. Don't forget also that the Whitman books are open to the air, which is composed primarily of inert nitrogen and very reactive oxygen, but also contains small proportions of any number of other gases, some of which are very reactive with metals. Including chlorine and ozone. Really, what the air you and your coins are exposed to as a matter of course is a real witch's brew of things, varying from day to day and the local environment. Only gold and platinum bullion coins won't become tarnished in whatever storage container you choose, simply because those two metals are almost entirely inert and will only react chemically under very specialized conditions.

 

The point i was trying to make to him, is i just didnt show up from the cotton field
I know what i,am talking about, so i actually turned the table on him, because it
was the same logic he was trying to play off on me, two can play that game..LOL

 

That is a great answer never thought about any type of chemical reaction but it
Makes sense.

 

What is a Master organic chemist?

 

Organic chemistry:

The study of the structure, properties, composition and reactions of different
Elements, that,s the short answer...LOL

 

Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon-based ("organic") materials. A Master organic chemist has earned a Master's degree through original research conducted at a university. I actually went beyond that for a Ph.D., but I gave that one up because of all the politics involved and my family was more important to me than kowtowing to a degree supervisor who had no business being a degree supervisor.

 

Many people bad mouth the Whitman folders. I never put mint state silver or copper coins in one but they do next to no damage to circulated coins. All of the foreign folders were last made in 1964 but they have issued new improved versions of the Canada folders. The only non-Whitman folders or albums that I use are an occasional Littleton for resale or the dansco type albums that I use for my specialty collections. I have one for my best specimen; one for my worst specimen; one for counter stamps; one for holed. I had to use an off brand for brown gold types pages but I only did it once for my best coins. Don't recall whether it was CROWN brand or something else.

 

Oh, I figured that but found it odd. I have an MS in Civil Engineering. Can I call myself a Master Engineer? JK. It struck me as odd to take Master as a title, when it is typically only done by PhD degree holders and the title "Doctor".

Us lowly civil engineers just add MS after our names.

 

When I used to fish, I used many different kinds of bait...

 

Don't think they were ever claimed to be air tight.

 

No. The chloride in PVC is chemically bound and causes no trouble until the PVC starts to degrade, besides, slabs are not made of vinyl. Vinyl is used for some cheap flips that are not meant for storage.