Sent for conservation to NCS and gets "Improperly Cleaned" by NGC?

A heavily toned coin was sent to NCS for professional cleaning. It then goes to NGC for grading and receives UNC DETAILS/IMPROPERLY CLEANED.

Is this scenario possible and has known precedents? I saw some slabbed coin description on eBay, and I just don't know enough about NCS, which made me curious about the possibility of "details" grade after NCS preservation.

Could it be that NGC means the cleaning occurred before the coin got toned? The coin inside the slab is blast white, no toning.

 

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Coin was cleaned, then retoned, then NCS removed the toning leaving just the clean coin. Most likely that is the scenario. Now you just have to unclean the coin, and get it graded.

 

And what if it was NCS who messed up the cleaning? Would NGC grader receive the coin from NCS with some kind of ticket that says "treated by NCS"? Or the grader never knows the coin went through NCS?

 

I don't think that the graders know that it went through NCS, and yes many coins have gone through NCS and received a details grade later. I was furious when I sent in an PCGS PR-65 1877 IHC with one tiny carbon spot to NCS and got a details grade back. The coin was still in the mint tissue from my grandfathers collection before I sent it to PCGS originally.

 

Wow!!!!! That would p--s me off . Did they ever make it right ?

 

Pics please!

 

Dark toning is risky to mess with. You never know what's under it. It can hide a lot of stuff.

 

Not really, they agreed to take another look at it, but it came back PR details again. I cracked it out about a year later and got back a PR-64 so I left well enough alone.

Sorry, long gone. The spot was pretty well removed though the underlying surface showed that it was there. Still looked much better than it did.

I would add that I have sent probably over fifty coins through NCS (both proofs and business strikes) and have been relatively successful in upgrading the coins. Sometimes they come back the same grade and sometimes they gain a point. My 1885 3CN actually gained three points. It went from a PCGS MS-61 to an NGC MS-64.

I still like the service, but would suggest that you are careful about what you send. If there may be surface damage under what you are trying to remove, or cleaning may bring out an old cleaning, keep it as it is. Not all conservers and evaluators are created equal.

 

Aw, shucks. Probably for the best.

 

NCS doesn't scrub a coin to remove toning, therefore it is a near certainty that the heavy toning was hiding the previous cleaning. It is a dangerous game to remove heavy toning as one isn't ever completely certain what is under it. This time, it revealed something hiding.

 

I don't know if this would answer any of your questions but I have a friend who knows a person over at NGC and he was told that one process used to see if a coin was Improperly Cleaned is using a special lamp and light to see if any type and which type of chemical was used during cleaning. Sounds like forensic science to me. My very first error coin I ever found (A Cent with Lamination) that I sent to NGC came back Improperly Cleaned.

 

That is why I don't send coins for conservation--it is a huge risk if it is a slabbed coin. If it is a raw coin, assume that it is a details coin. So, unless you're in love with a specific coin, conservation is very risky.

 

Absolutely--why risk turning an acceptable looking coin into a disaster area? Toning can hide a multitude of sins underneath, and unless the coin was really ugly, why take the risk? The first question I'd ask would be, why have a coin that one did not like the eye appeal in the first place?

 

My friend sent in a black capped bust half to NCS and it came back AU details whizzed.

 

So what are your thoughts here?

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/ng...possible-candidate.260813/page-2#post-2106217

 

Fair enough..thanks