Reputable Rollover Firm

Hey Folks

I have been researching companies to use for a 401k rolllover to a silver IRA. Are there any non-partial folks on here that have experience with PM rollover? Almost every company I research has bad reviews online so not sure what to believe. The ones that say they are 1% over cost are blasted by others saying that is a bait and switch.

Looking for low dealer fees, segregated storage and no hidden fees.

Appreciate the feedback.

Mark

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Mark, usually such advice needs more personal info on the holder which we do not want to put forth on the forum. But at least I can ask, why do you wish to roll over funds from a 401K to a bullion PM IRA? Some do it thinking that in case of global disaster, they would have the PM to fall back on, but every complete prospectus I have read of these companies, give them the right to pay off in USD if they need to, and the PM never comes into your contact until you withdraw them. So basically they are paper products. The major IRA companies stay away from these accounts. PM ETFs such as SLV and GLD are allowed in IRAs and seem the best deal to transfer income ( before taxes) 401k to a PM scenario basis ( even though paper based). Otherwise, if I wanted to be sure I would get it for sure as bullion metal, I would separately buy PM with post taxed income. Then it is in your hands. IMO.

 

I want a solid currency PM IRA which buys bars or American Eagles and is stored by a third party storage facility with segregated storage. Talking about places like Merit, Lear Capital etc. Problem is they all have bad consumer reports and they all slam each other when you call a sales person to compare fees. Wanted to hear from non sales people who may have dealt with them.

Reason is I am concerned about inflation and stock market tumble and want to protect and possibly grow my retirement account with real (non paper) commodity.

I understand folks not wanting to provide personal info here.
I am not buying PM to store at my house, just IRA so not concerned about privacy, just feedback.

 

I think most of us are concerned about the same things. But having been through PM "inflation" followed by PM tumbles more than once, I think that in today's market, with futures and dealers asking big premiums on up trends and low payout on down trends, most of the fluctuation is paper asset associated. SLV and GLD follows the PM prices fairly well, and can be converted to cash as quick as you can hit a button, whereas PM can not, even outside of an IRA. In both cases, the PM is in others hands.

Not often do I agree with bullion 'Stackers' but PM doesn't seem able to cover your worries unless you have it in hand or at least in direct control ( maybe in a SDB, with storage fees less than the IRA). And I know I haven't answered your original question well, as I haven't dealt with any of the firms. Researched , but not financially associated with them. Best wishes.

 

Thanks for inpit.

Bit of a novice. SDB is what?

Also, PM investor supposedly has total control of stored asset in PM IRA just not the value or fees. You can sell anytime or request delivery but you would have to pay taxes and penalty for early withdraw as well as sell at current buy price. As long term investment thinking it would be sold years away on an up trend...

 

SDB.......safe deposit box.

 

I'm missing something. What difference are you seeing between buying GLD or SLV and buying gold or silver and having it kept in a segregated account by someone else?

The reason people recommend buying physical gold or silver instead of paper gold or silver is so that you can hold it yourself, and not worry about someone who is supposed to be holding it for you deciding to abscond with the gold or silver. Since you don't hold the gold or silver in an IRA, pragmatically speaking, it is paper and not physical.

From what I can see, buying a gold or silver ETF is more convenient (a click of the mouse vs. selling and arranging for delivery), costs less (substantially lower storage and administration fees, because they are spread through the ETF, without the individual accounting that the IRA would require), and has the same level of security.

What am I missing?

 

From what I've been told, it is possible to exercise some legal kung-fu to take advantage of buying PM for your IRA AND be the legal custodian of the bullion. I don't know that I would recommend doing this though because I suspect that's a good way to show up on the IRS' audit radar. i.e. Too easy to contribute to your traditional IRA, take the tax deduction, buy bullion, take possession, and then sell the bullion before retirement without informing the IRS.

The IRS might someday decide to challenge serving as your own custodian of precious metals under sections 4975(c)(1(D) and 4975(c)(1)(E) of the Internal Revenue Code. These sections apply to self -dealing and conflict of interest abuses in self directed IRA's, like borrowing money from your IRA or buying property for personal use.

The only advantage I see to a precious metals IRA is the option to take physical possession of the bullion at some point in the future. Is that worth many years of custodian fees and the transaction expenses associated with buying and selling of physical bullion? It isn't for me...

 

Interesting - I did a couple minutes of research and it appears to be fairly murky.

From http://www.broadfinancial.com/personally-holding-gold: Section 408(m)(3)(B) states that bullion must be held “in the physical possession of a trustee” so, presumably, if you maintain physical possession of bullion that is in your IRA, you are probably violating the rules. There aren't any comparable rules for coins, though, so (provided that the coins meet other rules) you can probably keep possession of coins coins that are in your IRA.

As you suggested, though, the self-dealing rules could cause a problem.

 

I agree with Jim. I also do not agree many times with pm stackers, but I agree with them wholeheartedly that long term investment in pm is best served by physical possession of it. One to lower your carrying costs, and two to eliminate counterparty risk. Since the 401k rules are intentionally restrictive on them, to prevent people collecting coins but declaring it "investment", I would say 401k money is not a good avenue to invest in pm. Use after tax funds, physically buy the pm, and put into a SDB seems to be the safest course.

Its unfortunate, but the pm industry seems to be a magnet for lying, sleazy dealers. History is rife, (and I am speaking of every single year, including this one), with news of shady pm dealers bilking clients out of their life savings. This makes it even more important to make sure you educate yourself, use respected dealers others will vouch for, and to physically take possession of your items.

 

I have multiple IRA's, but I've always been very leery about bullion IRA's. They seem to pop up and become popular when the economy slumps a little and like Chris said, are usually peddled by the lowest of the low. Buy the silver and gold yourself and save the fees. Why pay someone to do it?

 

I talked to the Broad Financial guys a few times. While I think you can probably set up one of these LLC IRA's or whatever they are officially called, I do think it's a little grey area. I also have not pursued it because of potential future issues with the IRS.

I agree that it would be pretty cool to take some IRA money that's just sitting in some account and all of a sudden have some PM's to fondle, but in the end, I don't think I'm going to be doing it.

 

I dont have post tax money to buy PM but do have a 401K sitting there. My IRA does not have SLV or GLD type options. Not going to cash it out and pay tax & penalties so a rollover is the only option if I want to diversify in metals. Companies with the lowest spread are the ones with the most complaints againt them.

 

I think some of those companies are OK as long as you don't let them convince you to purchase overpriced numismatics. Merit advertises 1% over cost for bullion but they will try to push their customers into numismatics, but they still reportedly do over half their sales in bullion at 1% over, so you just have to stand your ground. However I'd be a little worried about doing business with Merit at the moment as if I remember correctly they have a lawsuit pending against them for their bait n switch tactics.

 

Roll some or all of your traditional IRA over to a major investment company's IRA that does. As long as the money transfer within a specific time there is no tax penalty.

 

Your plan may differ significantly from mine, but do you not have the option to borrow from your 401K? I do this occasionally as there are no penalties, interest, and I can pay myself back as fast or as slow as I choose. Its an interest free loan from yourself. Ive bought property this way many times. Just a thought.

 

This strategy has it's own problems, as it violates one of the fundamental rules of finance - "yesterday's money is always worth more than tomorrow's money." A practical example is the growth in the stock market over the past several years. The share that you paid $50 for "yesterday" may cost you $70 to buy "today," and $100 to buy "tomorrow." Unless you're increasing the amount of dollars you're using to "pay yourself back" to account for inflation, you're intentionally diminishing your future purchasing power for the sake of an easy loan. Borrowing money from yourself in this fashion should always be an option of last resort.

Taking money from an existing IRA, which is likely invested in mutual funds composed of a number of individual securities, and putting it into a bullion IRA also violates another basic rule of investment - diversification. Mutual funds, and index funds, attempt to reduce risk by spreading your money over multiple investments that are grouped together into a single holding.

No matter how much confidence you have in PM, the act of moving money from a diversified investment into a single investment is accompanied by a dramatic increase in risk that you will carry for the duration of the investment. I'm not typically a fan of paper metal, but if you can't afford to buy metal with post-tax income, and you're convinced that you need to have skin in the PM game, the wise thing to do would be to buy paper.

 

Knowing how assets can disappear on Wall St., the last thing I’m going to do is trust a Wall St. company to hold my physical pm’s. Since the need for physical pm’s would most likely occur during a worst case scenario, how many believe a Wall St. company would deliver your pm’s when all is crashing around them? If they even actually ever bought your pm’s, they would head for the hills with them.

 

But there are issues with this also. if you are planning for the "worst case scenario" that is a very difficult thing to do. The reason being you simply don't know what to prepare for. Every stacker seems to believe that it is a fact that metals will be worth something, but really, who knows. Some dude with some shingles you are trying to barter for may laugh at you when all you have is a useless metal to trade.

Now even if metals are worth something, I find it VERY unlikley that the guy who stacked them is the person who winds up with them. That honor in my opinion would go to the folks with the biggest armies.

Without knowning what to prepare for, I find the effort futile, and would rather concentrate on the much more likly probabilty that things will not come tumbling down all over the place. I mean, who really wants to be the happiest guy in a disater anyway, it is still a disaster

 

Then why buy physical? It doesn't hurt to put a small percentage of your portfolio in physical metals, just to cover all possible scenarios.