Question about gold- og tungsten-sound

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by Herberto, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. Herberto

    Herberto Well-Known Member

    I just found this fake on internet. Look, the tungsten fills it:

    505a27c2eab8ea3430000000-480-360.jpg



    But this one is a bit different, because the tungsten is pillar-design:
    gold_tungsten_fulled_kilo_bar.jpg






    So I want to ask: how does a gold-bullion-coin with tungsten sound like?
    fake.png

    I do own two Maple Leaf gold.

    When I hit it, it says something like: "Piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing"


    How would nr 2 and 3 sound like if you hitted it? Would they differ giving the different design of tungsten?
     
    xCoin-Hoarder'92x likes this.
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  3. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I'd expect them to sound different, given that tungsten is much harder than gold. But I'd also expect that it would be hard to tell the difference without an example of each to experiment with.

    I'd also guess that many sellers would be unhappy if you started whacking their coins.
     
  4. xCoin-Hoarder'92x

    xCoin-Hoarder'92x Well-Known Member

    I could be wrong here, but would there also be very slight weight differences, or do both weigh the same?
     
  5. desertgem

    desertgem MODERATOR Senior Errer Collecktor Moderator

    The largest physical variation between the 2 , besides hardness measurement, is conductivity of soundwaves. This is a hack-up , but it works as well as many that are in a snazzier looking machine at the bullion dealer.

    https://www.amazon.com/Ultrasonic-T...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=2WZ2SZY6ZN7C21WF1TXT

    It is basically measuring how fast the sound wave travels through different metals. In Gold sound travels @3200m/sec, In Tungsten @ 5200m/sec
    speed for other here http://www.classltd.com/sound_velocity_table.html

    The basics : The unit usually measure depth by entering the metal speed and it then uses ultrasound ( you have to put a drop of fluid ( drop of oil) to make good sound contact) to tell you the depth ( thickness of the metal). The table above has the velocities.

    But we can also do the opposite. We can enter the thickness of the coin or bar and it can indicate the speed, ( metal composition) which we can then look up on the chart also. There are other charts where experimenters have determined speed for different karat of gold, etc.

    There are many articles about using this process you can google, but the story is that this was the method the Gov. used to verify the gold in depository wasn't fake tungsten.

    For what is worth. I bought one and it takes practice, but can find a fake silver in with real . The accuracy is maybe several % on the speed and you have to measure the depth carefully with a plastic/nylon caliper to avoid scratching.

    Cheap entertainment for bullion people. Old people have hard time differenciating sounds through the air. Me included Jim
     
    -jeffB and Kentucky like this.
  6. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Cool machine!
     
  7. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Pretty much the same density, so for same size, the same weight.
     
    xCoin-Hoarder'92x likes this.
  8. xCoin-Hoarder'92x

    xCoin-Hoarder'92x Well-Known Member

    Ha, I guess that's why it's popular among counterfeit gold dealers. :dead:
     
    Kentucky likes this.
  9. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    I bought a Tungsten (tungsten carbide) wedding ring because of the weight/density and am impressed at how hard it is and how it has resisted any scratching or dulling.
    [​IMG]
     
    xCoin-Hoarder'92x likes this.
  10. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    About the only reason; it's really hard to work with because of its ridiculously high melting point and hardness. But it's the only (relatively) cheap material that's anywhere close to gold's density.

    Actually, uranium isn't too far off in density, but it's also difficult to work with, and there's the whole radioactivity thing that people get so worked up about.
     
  11. Kevin wu

    Kevin wu Well-Known Member

    Here a APP call bullion test , i have use it few time , tungsten coin will have different ring , it good to spot fake gold coin , it cost few dollars to download , but still cheaper then buy fake gold coin .
     
  12. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster It seemed like a good idea at the time.

    That's why it's used to coat the cutting ends of drill bits.

    Never thought I'd see a non-oxide ceramic on coin talk . Gotta love it :woot:
     
    Kentucky likes this.
  13. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I will be absolutely amazed if anyone can find a "listen to the ring" app that actually works.
     
  14. Kevin wu

    Kevin wu Well-Known Member

    That work well for me , you can try it free one first . I do ring test + weight test work well for me .
     
  15. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Did you actually have real gold coins and tungsten-filled fakes to try with it?

    Hmm. Going off and looking for it, I see that it has you select the exact coin type first, then do the ring test. I'm prepared to believe that that might be possible -- but I'd still be nervous about trusting it for a high-dollar deal.
     
  16. Kevin wu

    Kevin wu Well-Known Member

    I have real gold coin , but i dont have tungsten fake coin , 20190814_235326.jpg and I test the real gold coin on app that work well , here is my gold coin .
     
    xCoin-Hoarder'92x likes this.
  17. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    If it passed all your coins, that's great, but I'd be happier after seeing it reject a couple of known fakes. (No, I don't have any on hand either, except for a couple of COPY-stamped gold-plated copper tokens...)
     
  18. Kevin wu

    Kevin wu Well-Known Member

    I have try use silver coin and pre 33 gold coin to test 1 oz American gold eagle bullion test ring and it will not pass it , and I use 1 oz American gold eagle to test for pre 33 gold bullion test and it will not pass test , so the app is work well for me .
     
    -jeffB likes this.
  19. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Those are encouraging signs. At least it's not just saying everything's a good coin. :)
     
  20. Kevin wu

    Kevin wu Well-Known Member

    Every coin have different signs tone , if tungsten inside coin signs tone will change and will not pass app test , that how app work .
     
    Bob Evancho likes this.
  21. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    When all else fails, just buy from reputable dealer, then counterfeiting
    Wont be an issue.
     
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