Quantity vs Value

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by Adam34falcon, Jan 26, 2019.

  1. Ana Silverbell

    Ana Silverbell Well-Known Member

    I am probably on the side of a coming economic meltdown and failure of central banks and while that drives me, in part, to collect, I like it regardless of what happens. I like looking at silver, holding it, using the loop, etc. I haven't eaten it (colloidal silver) but it's a fun hobby.
     
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  3. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    At least you haven't eaten it but it does smell and feel good.
     
  4. CasualAg$

    CasualAg$ Corvid Minions Collecting

    I must confess to having tried colloidal silver. I didn’t find it to be much of anything.
     
  5. myownprivy

    myownprivy Well-Known Member

    I save the gold leaf they put on the desserts at the end of my 4 course, $200 per person dinners in my cabalist elite club meetings.
     
  6. Good Cents

    Good Cents Active Member

    This is my humble, if not long-winded opinion.

    I don't believe in thumbing my nose at those who are knowledgeable and putting down the experts. I seek out the experts and the educated in every area that makes a difference in my life.

    At the same time I would like to point out that even in the financial world, Economists (the guys that are supposed to know and be able to predict what is going up, down and sideways) are at times viewed with ridicule and their views taken with a grain of salt. But even then, it's all relative.

    No, there isn't some "Cabal" of "Elite" or "Deep State" operatives controlling world finance. Not Jewish or otherwise. Those are some of the oldest superstitions in the book, used to manipulate and rile up the angry masses. They are also the themes of great movies and TV series. But they have as much to do with reality as Superheroes do. The reason we like watching these things is because they are simple ideas - bad guys who are bad and good guys who are good and save the day. Evil geniuses able to manipulate the entire world with a hero overcoming them despite the odds. These simple themes appeal to us in very basic ways, which is why it is so common to use them in entertainment and which is also why it is so easy to spread superstitions and misinformation about a group of powerful people and their evil intentions, or "the other" - a group of evil people who have plotted, planned and caused all our problems - "The Cabal", "Elites", Jews, "Deep State" and others.

    But the truth of the matter is that no group of people, no matter how educated, smart or wealthy is that dedicated to each other to work together for generations or even decades, or have enough widespread control of enough pieces of the very enormous puzzle of "Financial Dominion" or "World Dominion".

    The truth of the matter is that every once in a while the SHTF causing major financial upheaval - be it a war, world wars, local unrest, gov't corruption, business corruption or natural disasters.

    The most recent "Great Recession" beginning in 2008 was caused by business corruption. Wall Street firms and banks took advantage of a not-updated-enough oversight system and that caused a credit crash which caused financial upheaval that reverberated worldwide.

    There was no major "Cabal" or group of Jews or "Elitists" or people who use high vocabulary words plotting the financial downfall of the world. It was lots of individuals working in a certain sector looking the other way when they knew that the system was being taken advantage of in their own company. It was CEOs and CFOs and upper management and middle management and lots of little guys not wanting to lose their jobs (and who can blame them!) who knew if they reported on what was going on they would get a pink slip. It was the slowness of the gov't financial policing system in not being able to keep up with the latest abuses of the financial system. It was thousands of individuals who looked the other way and tried to "mind their own business" when they saw things weren't quite right and may lead to problems down the road. IT WAS AN AGE OLD PROBLEM that happens in every industry and has been going on since the first lowly worker tried to speak up about his superior's misconduct after witnessing his boss skimming profits.

    Stuff just happens - lots of bad and stupid stuff - and sometimes when the bad stuff happens things fall apart. Things may fall apart in the next 100 years in ways we cannot envision or imagine now and have no way of predicting. But things will also in all likelihood come back together again, because that has been the human story. Whether it is a natural disaster, a war, an industry collapse or a financial one - no one is planning it, and we will eventually recover from it.
     
  7. Prez2

    Prez2 Well-Known Member

    Thank you Slack. Nice to know there are some regular folks still. :) Sometimes I think I ran into the upper classed club by accident. It's somewhat depressing hanging in the upper class when you're not upper classed. :)
     
  8. Prez2

    Prez2 Well-Known Member

    Okay. I'll use real world expenses. How about food? That's an everyday, always required item that one can't do without. I know my pay hasn't kept pace with that expense. That's more what I meant. I WISH food only inflated 3-4x since the nineties. My point is expenses expand seemingly exponentially while the inverse is almost the opposite. It's amazing that one has to kick and scratch for 2 percent annually while 'investors', corporate raiders and the like insist on exponential returns on their investments. The regular Joe is expected to dance and sing for next to nothing. Silver is something the average Joe can still afford yet they don't get rewarded for investing in it being more the point. Paper foundations made of smoke and mirrors is all the average Joe is promised. Just doesn't seem fair to me and that IS my opinion.
     
  9. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    Advice, is just what it is, always take it but never let anyone make decisions
    For you, Thats your job :)
     
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  10. Prez2

    Prez2 Well-Known Member

    Thank you. Real world expenses. Meanwhile the big boys insist they 'can't do business' unless they get hundreds or thousands of percent returns on THEIR investments. Meanwhile, we're promised 2% (if we're really good and keep quiet, dance, sing and bark for it). Silver is fixed and nobody can tell me otherwise. Why? Because too many have access to it and so it has to be controlled. Otherwise, less profit for the Titans. It's a joke really.
     
  11. Prez2

    Prez2 Well-Known Member

    Couldn't agree more. Additionally, I'd advise staying clear of those that so strongly to do otherwise.
     
  12. Prez2

    Prez2 Well-Known Member

    The meltdown is coming. No value in anything anymore. Labor is always cut while the minority profits expand and expand. That can't last. Sooner or later well, ***POOF*** goes paper economy built out of tissues, smoke and false promises. Can you say Venezuela?
     
  13. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Many find this confusing. I reject the notion that silver is "fixed". What I view as happening is that silver today is a byproduct metal. As long as there is demand for copper and tin, silver will be mined and sold regardless of the demand or price for it.

    As for the OP question, if you are in an area of the market you consider fairly priced, I think you buy when you have an opportunity to get low premiums. I will go months at times, but buy a few ounces of gold at a time when presented with cheap premiums. Premiums have a huge affect on ultimate profit. If you do not know where PM will go, at least you can control premiums you pay.
     
  14. Prez2

    Prez2 Well-Known Member

    Well, we would differ in that opinion and that's just fine with me. It's part of what makes the world go round. I reject that large entities don't 'play' with that market. For instance, as apparently those that believe in the merits of the price fixing lawsuit brought by the lawyers for investors do here:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-s-metals-price-fixing-lawsuits-idUSKBN1KG2BY
    I'm with the opinion of those investors. We can agree to disagree though. No harm, no foul. :)
     
  15. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    I agree, never any harm with honest disagreements. My problem with the idea of bank price fixing is that there are larger fish than the banks. If the banks truly were manipulating the market, why didn't someone call their bluff? All contracts on that market are actionable, meaning if you pay the full money up front, you can take delivery. If the banks were driving it too low, call their bluff and take delivery.

    Seems like an easy way to make a killing if you knew they were manipulating a market too low.

    Money is money, and I simply believe someone would have made billions if they called them on price fixing. Most of what I have read is simply misunderstanding of market dynamics, but again honest disagreements are what make boards like this work.
     
  16. CasualAg$

    CasualAg$ Corvid Minions Collecting

    Based on your signature line, I know why.
     
  17. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    I would argue there were many causes of 2008. One I wrote about for my final MBA paper when I specialized in securitization. It was that bad paper cannot be diversified away. Why was there bad mortgages? One reason was greedy agents and poor underwriting. People simply thought diversification solved all woes, and they don't. Another huge reason, though, was Barney Frank and his hearings forcing banks to write bad loans. Mortgages really were the spark of the whole thing, creating a liquidity crisis that brought down others.

    Yes, there are greedy people. Yes, there should have been more oversight to prevent this. Many on the inside and outside of the mortgage world saw the danger but were ignored. However, just as guilty were those in Washington who thought they could browbeat and embarrass financial firms into forcing loans that the financial firms pretty much KNEW would default, and KNEW the borrowers were going to be worst off for getting the loan. I simply wish those in Washington would get the blame they also deserve. You are not helping a poor person by giving him a loan he cannot repay. That borrower now lost his down payment and any principal he made, his credit got ruined. All so certain congresspeople could say they "did something about it to make it more fair".
     
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  18. Good Cents

    Good Cents Active Member

    I agree with all of what you wrote. My explanation was a VERY simple one, the general point of it being that it wasn't caused by a "Cabal" of some sort, or some small group of people who have full control over everything.

    When I referred to lack of gov't oversight, again, it was a very simple way of describing the very many lacks in gov't oversight, which are not limited to rules for banks and securities but are also overseeing what the gov't itself is allowed to do. I remember the congressional hearings on the Madoff scandal. It was all about the inspector general looking into the SEC, etc. Every group needs oversight, including Congress. We, the people, should be a lot of the oversight for Congress and the Senate. But modern life became SO much more complicated than any of the Constitutional framers could have envisioned. The layman shouldn't need to be an expert in every field in order to be able to trust that the world he lives in is being run correctly. Someone who gets on a train hoping to arrive at his destination shouldn't have to know how to drive that train.

    I agree with everything you wrote. I, too, wish that Congress would be held more accountable. But there is much too much dishonesty out there and again, the layman can't know everything. How should a layman know that his Congressman is lying or how to read between the lines when said Congressman says he helped the poor by securing mortgages for lower income citizens?

    The the dishonesty and corruption in our gov't system is getting out of hand and in our increasingly complicated world, it is increasingly easier for extremely dishonest gov't officials to pull the wool over the eyes of their constituents or potential voters.

    It is frightening, simply because it obvious to all who have studied it that the cause of downfall of governments and modern countries such as Venezuela, and the main cause of the prevention of countries to advance all point to one thing - Gov't corruption. And although we were the first to create a democratic nation, we may be the first to see it fail for the simple reason of gov't corruption. When the only way for an elected official to win an election is dependent upon how much money he/she raises, gov't is no longer run by the people, but rather by who pays for the official's election campaign. Disinformation, again, bought and paid for, goes hand in hand with this model and furthers the end of Democracy, the bankruptcy of a nation, and the collapse of a nation.

    I realize that I'm all over the place, but, it's all connected in my view.

    Getting back to my original point, again, there is no "Cabal" that is going to bring it all down. It may all come crashing down, but for reasons that have nothing to do with 10 people deciding to upset "World Order." (Gosh, if there were only such a thing as "World Order"! Lol!).

    Anyway, I agree with everything you wrote. There were certainly many more detailed reasons for the 2008 crash and Washington should have WAY more independent oversight of itself and suffer heavy repercussions for its infractions against the public.
     
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