Price that large dealers pay for bullion?

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by Don P, Apr 27, 2018.

  1. Don P

    Don P Active Member

    After reading some articles on how hard it is for the US Mint to dell ASEs and bullion in general, and how sales are down 40-50% from the same quarter last year; how much are large dealers such as APMEX, SD Bullion and Provident buying these coins for?

    I'm only guessing that with a huge decline in demand, the US Mint is selling 2018 bullion at a significant lower price to these large dealers to get rid of supply, but I don't see that reflected in the dealer prices.

    Are they artificially inflating the prices, over so called "spot" ? Just trying to make sense and get your feedback since there seems to be endless supply from the US mint for 2018 bullion.
     
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  3. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Guardian of The Farce, & Dead-Eye Master

    I would not assume any such thing. The premium over melt is steady and rarely changes. When it does change, it only goes UP.

    Bullion sales are down for ONE REASON ONLY. Most people think it's a crummy way to invest money, and the majority grows larger all the time.

    http://www.us-coin-values-advisor.com/American-silver-eagle-bullion-coins.html

    The current premium over melt paid by the authorized purchasers to the Mint for ASE's is $2.00 per ounce, if it hasn't changed lately.

    There's another FANTASIC piece of advice in there - NEVER buy graded ASE's. Smart!
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
    Blissskr and Victor like this.
  4. CoinBlazer

    CoinBlazer 0101000001001101001000000110110101100101

    I say graded ASE for collecting raw for investing
     
  5. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Well-Known Member

    You find varying answers depending upon one's perspective of the PM.
    For Kurt and I we're both Economists and also have different perspective from most here on Cointalk.

    I leave you with these 3 articles:
    ==> https://www.marketwatch.com/story/g...rs-making-this-big-sentiment-shift-2018-03-16
    ==> https://www.marketwatch.com/story/h...-keep-in-your-investment-portfolio-2018-03-12
    ==> https://www.marketwatch.com/story/seven-reasons-to-sell-gold-now-2017-09-21


    Personally, I collect ASEs though have recently stopped as it has reached a point in my portfolio where I feel comfortable having it. I consider it a fixed amount now.

    I do NOT collect bar PMs, and only collect US based ASE, AGE.

    I also collect US coin based items such as commemoratives and other coins based on their DESIGN, which I like but value the ones based on PMs more than ones based on other lower value metals.

    I consider it a wealth storage .. which has to be converted back to cash to actually use it. But it balances out the low end of my portfolio as it takes, or may take, considerable effort to convert to cash at some point.

    Also on the Silver is gettign Crushed thread, I post prices of ASEs from time to time on their price and spot price and variance. I actually track that from time to time and there are windfall profits from the vendors for ASEs before the variance starts to minimize. But they also have a buyback price which is lower. So there's a lot to learn about ASE buying/selling/storing which has many variable factors related to it.

    for instance, I put no value on slabbed US ASE/AGE/APE. But others do, and there's a market for it. It just depends where the market is when you want to monetize stuff. Whereas others strictly look at it as bullion and only worth spot.
     
  6. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Guardian of The Farce, & Dead-Eye Master

    Yes, if you want to lose on the deal.
     
    Santinidollar likes this.
  7. CoinBlazer

    CoinBlazer 0101000001001101001000000110110101100101

    fine
     
  8. CoinBlazer

    CoinBlazer 0101000001001101001000000110110101100101

    So are you a, ASE is bad all around type of guy?
     
  9. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Guardian of The Farce, & Dead-Eye Master

    Yup, I've yet to find even ONE SINGLE dealer who will pay ANY extra for a MS69 graded ASE, and BARELY ANY for an MS70. I have better things to do than contribute to PCGS and NGC ownerships' "yacht funds".
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
  10. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Guardian of The Farce, & Dead-Eye Master

    I collect one per year to keep my Dansco current and I also like the W-mint boxed non-proofs, which I am slowly hoarding. I've given up on the proofs and limited edition sets with gimmicks like reverse proofs, which always have looked REALLY dumb.
     
  11. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    If I was a dealer and someone wanted to sell me an MS69 bullion silver eagle, I’d probably discount my offer for the trouble of cracking it out of the slab.

    Sorry, guys. The math simply doesn’t work on graded bullion.
     
  12. sakata

    sakata Devil's Advocate

    I don't know the answer to this but I suspect that you are wrong. I suspect that they only mint what they can sell and that it is at a fixed price relative to spot. However, the big dealers probably have to put their orders in well in advance and so need to unload what is delivered to them so the price they charge will vary. Having said that, they all hedge against the price of silver so they are not strongly affected.

    I of what I just said is speculation on my part but it is based on a lot of reading over the years so I suspect I am not far wrong. I am ready to be corrected if need be so that I can learn.
     
  13. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    I have never bought a graded ASE or AGE . . . in any grade . . . not one!
     
  14. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Well-Known Member

    I recommend you contact Provident/APMEX and ask them for their Buyback price for slabbed regular or Proof ASEs for that instant as it varies over time.

    End user collectors may have higher value for slabbed ASE/AGE/APE. But that can vary depending upon the market.

    Dealers usually have no added value for slabbed, or in many cases even Proof, ASE/AGE/APEs.
     
  15. Do you feel it is a better idea to buy "imperfect" and "tarnished" ASE and the likes for a small % over spot? The consensus here is that it's ludicrous to pay more money to buy graded bullion.
    I picked up 3 ASEs and 3 Canadian Maple Leaf rounds at a garage sale this past weekend for $17.50 each. All 6 were imperfect. They were tarnished and a little worn. One had gold plating on parts of the obverse and an image electroplated on the reverse. Since they weren't mint, the owner let them go for about $1 over spot. Did I do well on these?
     
  16. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Guardian of The Farce, & Dead-Eye Master

    About right.
     
  17. rte

    rte Well-Known Member

    At a $1 over you did alright figuring that they probably rate the same as generic silver with the condition issues.
    As long as they check out to NOT be fakes and OR stick to a magnet.
    My local guy has one every now and again in the junk box for $1over.
     
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