Got into a discussion about altered slab on http://www.cointalk.com/t122528/ and just wanted to know peoples opinions. Personally, I think any altering of slabs is wrong. It defeats the purpose of slabs, degrades the added value of having them slabbed and weakens peoples opinion of them.
No it's not ok to alter slabs. However, I think you are overreacting a bit in the "2007 Montana SQ" circumstance. Like the other member was saying, you're buying in bulk anyway. It's not like you're seeing the exact coin that you're buying. However, if they were single coin listings I would definitely, undoubtedly report someone for altering the slab number, grade etc.
So if you alter it to sell one coin it's not ok, but if you do it to sell multiple coins it is ok? I think it's not ok in any form.
No, that's not what I meant. I mean, if you're planning to sell in bulk and you don't want to take multiple photos like in this state quarters case, it's ok to alter it. However, I do agree that it is sort of weird that the seller only needs to take 2 photos of 2 different coins yet he resorts to Photoshop.
As a "devil's Advocate", I can see where ethically it is wrong, but is it legally? Coinage is covered by US law when it is altered in a fraudulent manner, but what about a slab? If you bought it , apiece of paper and a plastic shell, cant you do what you wish to it? If you have a ford, you can paint it rainbow, chop it down, change the name plate from FORD to FRAUD, and can Ford do anything to you? Even if you want to sell it that way? I haven't read if the TPG automatically copyrights their labels ( Other than name)or if they retain the rights to the slab , if they want to recall it for relabeling can they force you to turn it in? An artist could probably crack a slab and write MS-70 over the grade, or add a grade to a genuine without any problem as an artistic satire against grading. I know there has been legal cases against counterfeit slabs, but not sure if any against a misuse of a genuine slab. Just to wake up the brain at night Jim
I do not want to split hairs here but I might have to. Does cleaning scratches off of your slab count as altering it, or the reverse scratching the case to cover up something on the coin? I believe if you are bidding on a coin the picture should represent that coin and NO stock photos should be used for multiple coins of the same grade. Just my opinion.
I don't know anyone who would intentionally try to deceive someone by altering a slab! I would worry more about someone selling the wrong coin than messing with a slab. I'm not saying it's never been done, I just don't know anyone who would do it!!
Obviously, any alteration with intent to deceive is wrong. It's fraud. Since you said "altering", I thought I would split hairs and point out that polishing a slab is "altering" but obviously perfectly ethical and beneficial to all parties involved.
Actually, this seller did not alter any slab. All he did was Photoshop an image, but it is still misleading and unethical. It's one thing to represent a large group of slabs having the same grade with a stock photo, but in this case the same image is being used to represent two different grades. Chris
I agree. Deception is the key here. It is fine to shine up a product to make it look its best prior to selling it. Just think of the last time you sold a car. However, trying to deceive someone into thinking the product is something it is not is just wrong. For example, any tinkering with the slab insert designating grade by blurring images or using Photoshop to alter the true presentation of a coin (or using a stock photo as Chris points out) is misleading and unethical. TC
Since i was the OP about the 2007 Montana State Quarter here is the problem that I have with it. If the seller has numerous amounts of an item that he wants to sell then I understand that taking numerous pictures would be quite tedius and time consuming especially when you are trying to take a living. The issue with this is that you dont know what the condition of the slab looks like, for all you know it looks like the one in the picture but what "if" it is cracked/broken/appears to be tampered etc..I don't think it's a form of fraud but it is deception. If the seller does photoshop he/she should clearly state that in bold letters, also any other information to make the buyer aware that there is no intent to manipulate and put the serial number in the appropriate box.
Yes he is using the same picture for two diffrent grades but the grades are so close you are not going to be able to tell the diffrence on the pictures he used anyway. If we were talking about an MS64 or MS65 I would agree but PR69 and PF70? I wouldn't have done it that way but I also do not see anything wrong with him doing it the way he did.
What would happen if you received a coin that was photoshop and the coin was A. not the proper grade or B. Slab was damage. How would you feel and would you think it;s ok to do it?
I ran the number on the NGC slab and it comes back as PR-70 UCAM. So something is fishy with those two eBay auctions. And NO it is not okay to alter slabs.
If it is your slab and you want to alter it... go ahead no problem, but don't ever try to sell it or rip anyone off.
