[Poll-6] #12 FitzNigel vs #21 Orfew (Round 1) CIT 2018

Welcome to Round 1 (Group 3) of CIT 2018! If you are unaware of the tournament I invite you to get caught up with all the fun on the following link:

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/an...annual-coin-imperator-tournament-2018.320328/



I want to give a special thank you to the participants for volunteering to play the game. We have a great group of people here at CT.

........................................................​

#12 @FitzNigel


Imperial Rome
Plautilla, r. 202-205 A.D.
Rome Mint, AR Denarius, 18.82 mm x 3.15 grams
Obv.: PLAVTILLAE AVGVSTAE. Draped bust right, hair coiled in horizontal ridges and fastened in bun on back
Rev.: CONCORDIAE AETERNAE. Caracalla standing left, clasping hands with Plautilla standing right
Ref.: RIC IV-1 Caracalla 361, p. 269 (scarce)

Price: $100

Why It’s Cool:
Plautilla was the wife of emperor Caracalla. This issue (and a similar one with Caracalla’s portrait on the obverse) celebrates their marriage and the “eternal harmony” that would come from it. Of course, it was an arranged marriage and the two hated one another, so the coin showing them clasping hands is nothing more than imperial propaganda. Once her father was overthrown as praetorian prefect, Plautilla would be sent into exile, and eventually murdered once Caracalla’s father was no longer around to stop him. Plautilla’s coins are excellent sources for Roman hairstyles, as she showed off five different styles in just three years of coinage. In this issue, she is sporting the “melon style,” with her hair coiled in horizontal ridges and fastened in a high bun in the back.

Also, this coin was a bit of a bargain, as others with a sharp obverse tend to go for between $150 and $200 at CNG (and those with a sharp reverse have gone for as much as $500).

........................................................​

#21 @Orfew


Julius Caesar. AR Denarius, 44 BC.
(19.00 mm 3.68 g)
Obv:. Laureate head right; before, CAESAR IMP; behind, star of eight rays.
Rev: P. SEPVLLIVS MACER. Venus standing left, holding Victory and sceptre (resting on star?).
Cr. 480/5b RSC 41 BMC 4165 Syd 1071Sear (2000) 1412
A very elegant portrait. Perfectly struck on broad flan. Areas of flatness and scratch on obverse, otherwise about VF.
Ex: Artemide Asti E-Auction 43 E, June 9, 2018.

Price: $619

Why It’s Cool:
This coin features a lifetime portrait of Julius Caesar as dictator. It took me a while to find one that I liked. When these come up for auction there is much competition for them. It is not that they are particularly rare, one can find numerous examples for sale at any given time, it is the fact that these are sought after by many collectors. A lifetime portrait of Julius Caesar is a major purchase (at least for me), and would be the centerpiece of many ancient coin collections.

This particular coin features a portrait of Julius Caesar on the obverse with the legend “Caesar Imp”, meaning Julius Caesar Imperator. At this time “Imperator” did not exactly mean emperor it was more like victorious general. On the reverse we see Venus standing and the name of the moneyer who issued the coin. Venus is important as Julius Caesar claimed he was a descendant of Venus. The moneyer’s name is P. Sepullius Macer. Julius Caesar was the first living Roman to have his portrait on a coin. For some Romans this was too much to stand for. The Romans had a troubled history with their kings and did not want to return to those times. Some believe that these portrait coins so troubled high ranking Romans that it led to the assassination of Ceasar.

One fascinating aspect of these lifetime denarii is that they were minted before the assassination. This coin in particular was issued near the end of February which means it was minted mere weeks before the death of Julius Caesar on March 15. This is according to the work of A. Alfoeldi. Since the publication of his work other sources have disputed the sequencing of the portrait denarii of Caesar. Some have claimed that all of the Crawford 480 series were in fact lifetime issues.

One of the ideas that attracted me to ancient coins in the first place concerned holding a piece of important history in one’s hand. It can be argued that the life and death of Caesar were very important to history. Holding one of these coins takes us back to an important and fascinating historical period.

As to the coin itself, it is struck on a large flan, the portrait is well centered, the obverse legend is very easy to read, and the reverse is quite pleasing as well with good details preserved. The obverse portrait has a deep scratch across the head. However, given the other qualities of the coin this was easy to overlook.

I also considered this coin to be a bargain. I paid 619.00 all in for the coin and I would do so again. Perhaps the scratch on the head kept the bidders away.

........................................................​

A Gentle Reminder
We have had a remarkably fun and friendly tournament so far and I want to thank all of our members who have contributed and commented Let's continue to do a good job of keeping our tournament friendly! Instead of focusing comments too much on why you didn't vote for one coin over the other try to focus on why you did vote for the one you chose!

Remember that everyone gets 3 votes to choose which coin you think comes out on top in each of the three categories. With that I will open the floor to comments, pile-ons and shameless lobbying.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Eye appeal: That obverse of Plautilla is exceptional for its clarity and arrangement. The reverse is a bit fuzzy, but not so bad as to make it hard to see the image. The gash on the Caesar piece challenges its beauty, but not its significance. Ironically the reverse is more photogenic, but who's looking?

Bargain: the Plautilla was a bit below market, but not on the same scale as the Caesar. Getting that coin for this price, with such a well positioned defect, this was an opportunity too good to miss.

Historical and numismatic significance: well, how does the unloved wife of a not very lovable, murderous emperor, stack up for significance against such a figure as Caesar? Fitz told about as much as could be said, and Orfew scratched the surface.

 

I'm shocked that with @FitzNigel and @Orfew there isn't a medieval coin being played. While they are unpopular on this forum, I still thought one would appear between these two guys. Now I have to actually consider the coins instead of automatically voting for a fellow ‘bastard children of numismatics’ member.

 

@Curtisimo , this "[Poll-6]" designation is working. It is easy to know I have voted in all 6 to date. Thanks for titling them in this useful way.

 

I knew going up against @Orfew, I would not have a chance on historical interest (since this is his specialty), so I decided to throw in my best shot in the other two categories... I suspect this will come down to bargain (and thus I am kicking myself for not using another coin that I thought would be better for a later round... Orfew came out swinging!).

 

Interesting how 'bargain' is defined differently in our various opinions. I'll tack on a strange fourree combining the Plautilla reverse with a Caracalla obverse that I got as part of a CNG large AK collection lot. We don't enter grouped coins like this because it is hard to place a value when it is obvious that some coins in a lot are better than others. The lot cost me about twice per coin the $18 I entered this one as but there were other coins that made up the difference. At $18, this zero demand coin is no bargain even though it is extremely rare. At $100, FitzNigel's is a bargain if for no other reason than that excellent portrait.

 

Super coins and write-ups @FitzNigel and @Orfew ! Dynamite.

Fitz, I have to toss out my Plautilla that has her bun slipping off the back of her head!

RI Plautilla 202-205 CE m CaracallaAR Denarius 3.7g Concordia patera scepter RIC 363

Andrew, I love the Star/Comet on the JC. Envious I do not have one myself. One of my Caesars has a lot of bronze stuck to it, making the Elephant look like it has made a terrible mess after it!


RR Julius Caesar AR Denarius 49 BCE Traveling Mint Elephant-Pontificates Sear 1399 Craw 443-1

 

I think the votes in the two categories that have winners by landslides are as they should be (though I’m really wondering about the thinking behind the 3 votes that went to the Caesar for Eye Appeal).

The Bargain category was really tough, IMHO. I think both are great scores for the price, but ultimately, I had to go with the Plautilla. There are many out there with very nice obverses, but Fitz’s, with that portrait, I’d consider exceptional.

 

I thought for sure I would see "medieval" coins. I like both coins, but have to go with the Julius Ceasar for historical importance/ best investment value. For eye appeal I decided on the Plautilla Denarius
John

 

I also have to go with the Caesar coin but the Plautilla coin is great too, and tops the Caesar coin for best bargain. So that's how I voted.

 

I really like the obverse on the Plautilla denarius — she has a lovely expression and you can see all the details of her elaborate hairstyle.

 

Both great coins guys, an absolute credit to you both.

 

Well said, Ancient Aussie

 

Of course I'm partial to Plautilla for having completed a set of denari of hers, but who is she to beat JC Himself ?
Poor thing, she's had to deal with odious Caracalla when alive, and now with JC while dead !
Poor, poor thing !

Q

 

On a random note (and this isn’t me campaigning, I genuinely just saw this and thought it would be fun to share), I was just in a museum which had an amazingly preserved bun of Roman hair. Yep - this is how it came out of the ground:

(Sorry for the leg reflections...)

 

You should have squatted down to take the picture so that the hair would be reflected on your head rather than on your... never mind

 

LOL, yeah my IMMEDIATE thoughts too!

 

Another close one guys!

Results
#12 @FitzNigel - 87
#21 @Orfew - 90 Winner

A really close battle of two very different coins. Fitz won the eye appeal category by the same margin as Orfew won the interest category leaving these coins to duke it out in the bargain category where Orfew held a slight edge.

Congratulations to @Orfew , who will advance to meet the winner of the @AnYangMan vs @Terence Cheesman match.

 

Aw... once again, my coins are one-hitter-quitters. Well done @Orfew !

 

@FitzNigel Congrats on a clever strategy well played.Your coin is lovely.