[Poll] #5 zumbly vs #12 FitzNigel (round 1) CIT 2017

Hello and welcome to the first round of the 2017 CoinTalk Coin Imperator Tournament. If you aren’t aware of the tournament then you can read about it here.

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/an...intalk-coin-imperator-tournament-2017.293824/



Please take a minute to appreciate the excellent coins shown below and cast your votes. A BIG thanks to both our contestants for sharing these cool examples!

#5 @zumbly



Heraclius, with Heraclius Constantine, AD 615-638
AR Hexagram. Constantinople mint
BYZANTINE EMPIREDia.: 25 mm
Wt.: 6.42 g
Obv.: ∂∂ NN hЄRACLIЧ Єτ hЄRA COnS, Heraclius and Heraclius Constantine seated facing on double throne, each crowned and holding globus cruciger; cross between.
Rev.: ∂ЄЧS A∂IЧτA ROmANIS, cross potent on globe above three steps; K to right.
Ref.: DOC 64; Hahn MIB 140; Sear Byzantine 798.

Price: $99

Why It’s Cool:
When the economic exigencies of war with the Sassanids pressed upon him, the Byzantine emperor Heraclius went from borrowing money from the church to appropriating their silverware wholesale to strike a new silver coin, the hexagram. This coin - struck from melted-down church plate and lamp holders, its reverse legend the exhortation Deus adiuta Romanis, or "May God help the Romans" - is one of those with the history of its times woven into its very fabric.

#12 @FitzNigel



William IX of Aquitaine, second reign r. 1109-1117
AR Denier
French Feudal, Toulouse
Dia.: 18.82 mm
Wt.: 1.1 g
Obv.: VVILELMO COME, Cross Pattee in center, S in second quarter
Rev.: +TOLOSA CIVI around, PAX in center
Ref.: Duplessy 1210 (as William IV), Roberts 4225 (As William IX), De Wit 439 (as William IV)

Price: $130

Why It’s Cool:
While there is some disagreement as to who issued this denier from Toulouse, the style points closer to the period of the early twelfth century when the Duke of Aquitaine was claiming overlordship of the county of Toulouse (rather than the reign of William IV of Toulouse in the early 11th century; compare this to the much more common denier of Raymond of Toulouse). William IX was not only a duke, but is credited with being the first Troubadour. His songs and poetry entertained many, and it is through his interpretation of the courting of maidens that we get the invention of modern Love and Romance ('love' for the Romans was more lust or cupidity, not 'romance' as we think of it...).

Comments
The comment section of this thread will be open for shameless lobbying, respectful discussion and for anyone to explain their voting logic if they choose.

I know that I don’t have to tell you fine, upstanding ladies and gentlemen this, but remember to keep the banter civil, respectful and POSITIVE lest the mods become upset with us. Remember this is all in fun and will benefit a good cause no matter who wins

…and of course PLEASE post your relevant examples pile on style!

 

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Just a suggestion, but I think the poll results would read more logically if they were arranged:

Eye appeal (participant #1)
Value for money (participant #1)
Historical or numismatic interest (participant #1)

Eye appeal (participant #2)
Value for money (participant #2)
Historical or numismatic interest (participant #2)

 

May the participants in this round vote? (I've gotta at least get one vote against Zumbly's awesome coin!)

 

Yep! Anyone can vote whether they are in the tournament or not. Both beautiful coins!

 

Then I'll grant Zumbly value, but how can one argue against the origins of Romance?? That completely changed the world we live in! (I do love the coin, Zum!)

 

both are fine coins and good write ups.

 

I guess I have a little prejudice against Byzantine coinage. I have not cared for them in my collection, so it probably influenced my voting on these fine coins. Otherwise, they are both very nice looking coins with very good information included. Thanks to both for trying this new competition. I'm interested in how this will all turn out.

 

I don't see this as a problem since there will be a similar number who don't like medieval or whatever the other choice is cancelling you out. I note that simply voting does not cycle the thread back to the top so someone will need to comment every so often to keep the thread on page one. That doesn't mean everyone needs to explain themselves but someone needs to watch that the threads don't die prematurely.

 

I completely agree Doug. That's why I invited everyone to pile on with relevant (or irrelevant) examples if I see one of these drop too low I'll make sure to give it a bump

 

i can understand your point. these coins are a part of history, but as anyone can see, there was quiet a loss of artistry in the finished product, for whatever reason. a dark age for coins.

 

Yeah I can see how Byzantine coins might seem to be less artistic but I don't really think that's the case as much as I used to. The few times I have been able to visit a Byzantine church or building I was actually very impressed by the beauty of the art when you actually experience it up close. I think the coin style is just an extension of the artistic style in general. Not really worse... just different.

This was outside a Byzantine chapel in nothern Greece. We were asked not to take pictures in the chapel which we of course respected but it was kind of a bummer because the inside was really stunning.



This Byzantine building is not as well preserved but kind of interesting in that it was built on top of the ancient Athenian Mint!

 

that's prolly true

 

@FitzNigel said :

Catullus would disagree!...

'Let us live, my Lesbia, and let us love,
and let us judge all the rumors of the old men
to be worth just one penny! [Latin: "assis" <- coin-mention bonus!]
The suns are able to fall and rise:
When that brief light has fallen for us,
we must sleep a never ending night.
Give me a thousand kisses, then another hundred,
then another thousand, then a second hundred,
then yet another thousand more, then another hundred.
Then, when we have made many thousands,
we will mix them all up so that we don't know,
and so that no one can be jealous of us when he finds out
how many kisses we have shared.'
- Gaius Valerius Catullus (c. 84-54 BC), Catullus 5

Still, that's an excellent coin, Fitz... I'm even tempted to put it on my want list .

 

Well, I love Medieval and Byzantine coins Its going to be hard to decide, both Zumbly and FitzNigel have great coins, writeups.

 

Interesting! I hadn't considered my personal bias in the 'tournament'. In this case, although both interest me, I haven't been collecting the respective series since I returned to collecting so I believe I can be impartial. I wonder how open-minded I can be when a RR coin is pitted against a LRB etc etc???

 

Yeah I know what you mean. That's why I instituted the 3 categories criteria. I am partial to classic Greek stuff but I think I can be impartial when breaking it down and considering by category. The historical or numismatic interest category is the one where our personal preferences play in the most I think.

 

Aha! But Catullus does not disagree - he is stating a lust, and physical love, whereas William brought about an age of spiritual love! Not of the body, but of the mind!

 

Heh. "'romance' as we think of it" is probably quite different!

 

I know what you mean. He had his softer side apparently but he also wrote some pretty raunchy stuff that I can't repost or else I'd get banned by the mods lol

 

Never taken to much notice of Byzantine coins until I seen Zumbly's, and just this morning another of this type came on Vcoins for sale, around the same price but nowhere near as nice as the zumbly example.