[Poll-12] #5 AnYangMan vs #28 Terence Cheesman (Round 1) CIT 2018

Welcome to Round 1 of CIT 2018! If you are unaware of the tournament I invite you to get caught up with all the fun on the following link:

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/an...annual-coin-imperator-tournament-2018.320328/



I want to give a special thank you to the participants for volunteering to play the game. We have a great group of people here at CT.

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#5 @AnYangMan


AE Boshan Ming Knife, 284 – 279 BC.
State of Qi, mint located in Ju
164 mm, 13.04 g.
Hartill 4.46, Rarity 4
Obv: Boshan 博山Style Ming 明, Rev: serial mark Yi 一(one)

Price: $60

Why It’s Cool:
Like so many of our members here, I tend to collect from a historical perspective. For early Chinese coins this is often quite difficult, with a date range of less than a century seldomly encountered and only the issuing state or city being identifiable. These Boshan (named for the site they were first discovered at in 1802) knives are a welcome exception. They are relatively rare (Hartill gives them a 4/16), so I was quite happy to snag this up from a reputable dealer who had misidentified it as a regular Ming knife for about a tenth of the going rate.



They were issued by the Qi 齐 state in a short period between 284 and 279 BC and represent the dire situation Qi was in during these five years. Initially, Qi was one of the most prosperous and advanced of all the warring states. It went completely downhill in 300 BC however, when king Min 齊湣王 ascended to the throne of Qi. Overconfident, paranoid and a complete megalomaniac (never a good combination), he overstretched his forces while conquering the smaller southern state of Song 宋, trying to achieve his dream of unifying China under his rule. The king of the neighbouring Yan state, a far more competent ruler, sensed an opportunity and advanced into Qi territory without opposition. In 284 BC, Yan sacked and occupied the capital of Linzi 臨淄, as well as 70 other cities,reducing Qi to only two cities: Jimo 即墨 and Ju 莒. These Boshan knives were issued within this turbulent period; whoever cast these knives would not have been sure whether his state would survive for another week, month or year.

The smaller of the two remaining cities, Ju, was responsible for issuing these knives. Some of the rarer reverses even mention the toponym. In addition, an archaeological excavation in the vicinity of the ancient city of Ju in 1994 yielded the remains of a metal-casting workshop, along with around 70 terracotta moulds for Boshan knives. So the mould which was used in casting my specimen might actually still be around. How awesome is that?



One question remains: Why did the once proud Qi state resort to casting such an imitative currency? They were obviously intended to circulate within the Yan state economy, a fact supported by their findspots; the latest theory stating that they were used by merchants in trading with (occupied) Yan territory. They were however cast by a government authority and will undoubtedly have been used to finance the fight against Yan.

Differentiating these Boshan Ming knives from actual Ming knives is quite easy: Boshan knives are usually much lighter, with even heavy specimens not reaching the 15-16 gram standard Yan state Ming knives were cast on. The biggest difference however is the calligraphy of the character on the obverse. Compare the angular Ming of my Boshan knife (left) to the more roundish version found on a regular Ming knife (Right).



The production of Boshan knives would come to a halt in 279 BC. After five years of hardship, Qi’s luck would finally turn around; King Min had since been murdered and the capable general Tian Dan 田單 had taken command over the remaining Qi forces. The tipping point would be the unsuccessful Yan siege of Jimo, famous for the unorthodox method of defence used by this general. He dug tunnels under the city walls and when darkness fell released a bunch of oxen, dressed in red silk adorned with daggers and flaming torches, into the Yan encampment. The Yan soldiers thought they were being attacked by dragons (Yikes!) and routed instantly, opening the door for Tian Dan to reconquer all lost Qi lands.

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#28 @Terence Cheesman


Satraps of Caria Maussolos Ar Tetradrachm ME Magistrate. 15.13 grms 23mm
Obv. 3/4 facing head of Apollo laureate
Rv. Zeus Labraundod standing right.

Price: $5,100

Why It’s Cool:
I really like the portrait of Apollo on this coin. It is so much more artistically rendered than what you normally see in this series. Apollo is depicted as a confident young man. 3/4 facing portraits are among the most difficult for an artist to render and I think the man who did this one did an absolutely superb job. Additionally, the coin was struck under Maussolos, whose tomb was one of the wonders of the ancient world. A beautiful coin stuck by one of the most famous figures of the era, what more can I say?

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A Gentle Reminder
We have had a remarkably fun and friendly tournament so far and I want to thank all of our members who have contributed and commented Let's continue to do a good job of keeping our tournament friendly! Instead of focusing comments too much on why you didn't vote for one coin over the other try to focus on why you did vote for the one you chose!

Remember that everyone gets 3 votes to choose which coin you think comes out on top in each of the three categories. With that I will open the floor to comments, pile-ons and shameless lobbying.

 

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That is a real beauty @Terence Cheesman and I mean no disrespect for @AnYangMan,s coin. I will say that I have much more understanding of the "knife".

Compare TC's coin to my very poor quality example

SATRAPS OF CARIA, MAUSSOLOS
AR Drachm
OBVERSE: Head of Apollo facing slightly to the right
REVERSE: Zeus standing right, holding labrys and spear
Struck at Caria 377-353 BC
3.50g, 14mm
Sear 4956

 

Fun matchup!

Here is my example of a Boshan knife. It is broken as well and is very small. I was happy to pay $175 for it for comparison.


Here is a Qi knife. These are large and impressive, matching the pre-284 BC grandeur of the Qi state.



Here is an extremely early Ming knife. It is basically still a pointed knife at this point.



And here is a smattering of Ancient Chinese knife coins. The largest is a Qi knife, and the smallest is the Boshan.



And here is my one and only Greek tetradrachm: a lifetime Alexander III struck at the Tarsos mint after the fall of the Persian Empire.

 

Hahaha the dragon cows are attacking... everybody RUN!!!

 

Who can disagree with this highlight of the post? I do not collect knives but your write-up certainly explains why that is a reasonable pursuit. Thank you.

Thank you also for reminding me why I will continue collecting coins with inscriptions in languages I read even just a little.

 

I'm learning a lot about Chinese currency. Thanks! @Terence Cheesman gorgeous portrait and reverse!

 

The stuff of nightmares! No wonder those Yan soldiers routed...

@Terence Cheesman, a truly beautiful tet and more than a worthy opponent! Interesting to see how this one will end

Thanks @TypeCoin971793 for the additional pictures, especially for the Qi knife! I wanted to include one in my write-up as a contrast to these light Boshan knives, but I figured it was long enough as it is!

 

What a wonderfully odd matchup!

Terence's Maussolos tetradrachm is off the charts in the eye appeal category, and AYM's writeup truly illuminates the subject and breathes life into that 'crusty old knife'.

Somehow, you did it again, @Curtisimo!

 

Beautiful coin @Terence Cheesman ! Beats anything I have hands down!

 

Drop-dead gorgeous tet, @Terence Cheesman! Wow!

 

Enough to chill one to thier very soul the Yan did the only sensible thing to do

The more that I thought about this the more I realized that... yes... that is pretty awesome. It seems the equivalent in Roman numismatics would be stumbling on a room in the Capitoline Hill full of used dies! I have what might be a pretty rookie question, though.

Is it common in Chinese numismatics to do the equivalent of a "die study" where you can identify multiple knives that came from the same mould? Then match those to a known mould if published?

 

When you say the same mould, are you saying the clay that once touched your knife or another impression of the same master that made a new clay for every tree? How many bronze pieces were made from one clay? I had in mind they were broken away after cooling so there might be related pieces but no way of showing one particular clay went with one particular coin. Can you talk us through the process of making these from the start?

 

the Chinese knife is great esp. with the excellent write up.. as far as we know, the Chinese had the concept of money long before anyone else did and these pieces i feel are underrated, but becoming more accepted by the coin collecting community.. some of my 1st pieces where Chinese just from the history.... bang for the buck, it's the best one here, but Monts. coin would be hard to beat with a gold ducat and should be for 5 grand +

 

Statues and frieze from Maussolos‘ tomb.

 

Great Caria Tet @Terence Cheesman ! And the Qi knife is super example with a solid write-up @AnYangMan ! Thanks guys for the VERY interesting match-up!.

I have a knife, nothing fancy:

China Ming Knife money 400-220 BCE bronze Hartill 4.42-3

And NOTHING from Caria! How about my Tet (Tetartemorion) with Apollo from Kolophon?

Iona Kolophon AR Tetartemorion 530-520 BCE Archaic Apollo Incuse Punch 0.15g 4.5mm- SNG Kayhan 343

 

Wow @Terence Cheesman ! What a beauty. Looking over these coins yours really does stand out.

 

I am learning a lot about ancient Chinese knife money. An YangMan, your writeup was very educational, thanks for posting that Terance Cheesman.....beautifull COIN!!!!!

 

There is still a few hours to weigh in on this cool matchup.

I have greatly enjoyed the write ups on this and other Eastern Coinage so far! I feel like the quality threads on those subjects don't get the attention they deserve on the board sometimes. Well in this case I can say at least 60 people read the write up

Of course I also never get tired of viewing eye candy like Terence's tetradrachm.

Good match

 

Big thanks to both of our participants! I learned a lot of from this thread.

Results
#5 @AnYangMan - 83
#28 @Terence Cheesman - 97 Winner

AYM wins both the bargain and interest categories with a great write up while Terence Cheesman wins the day on the strength of his beautiful tetradrachm's eye appeal! Thanks to both players

@Terence Cheesman will advance to face @Orfew in round 2.