PCGS ... this is indefensible!

So here's the bottom line, as long as the grading company restores the coin, everything will grade problem free .

 

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This is NOT directed at you, just a step-off point.

!. There is absolutely NOTHING in the OP's post that indicates any conservation/restoration work has been done to any of these coins! Therefore, IMO, the old link about the PGCS conservation service has no bearing on this thread. Obviously, all PCGS did was grade and slab them.

2. I think we'll all agree that the first two examples SHOULD have been "detailed." IMO, they exhibit environmental damage and are Net graded.

3. IMO, the last two examples don't belong on this thread as I believe they are acceptable examples of the way all the major TPGS treat Large cents. The 1850 should "blast" with a little conservation. I would take it as is.

 

So you disagree that the 1855 is cleaned? And the 1857 is NOT scratched on both sides... and possibly cleaned as well?

 

Basically, Yes. The professional dealers/graders' I know tend to give a little leeway to soft metal coins with hits and scratches that are over 150 years old. YOU AND I DON'T but we don't matter in the big picture.

IMO, the 1855 is a nice coin. If you wish to call it cleaned, that's OK with me. Since joining CT, I've noticed that many members call anything that is posted as "cleaned."

Grading is subjective and this is a fine example. I side with the PGGS professionals over you on this coin. It is 100% market acceptable whether it was actually "cleaned" or not sometime in the past century and a half. That said, I'll bet you and I don't care about "market acceptability" and have our own standards for grading/damage/ED/cleaning.

 

The silly head is indefensible and should be in a problem holder. Being a Seated collector, I see tons of cleaned coins in straight slabs.

And then we start seeing stuff like this:




If this 1877 IHC were graded a couple decades ago when grading was sensible it would be a VG-10 at best. Key date hype, gradeflation, and this coin somehow got into a VF-20 slab.

Grading isn't what it used to be. Not long before I can submit my lowball candidate 1859-S half and get it into an MS-66 holder.

 

YIKES! The coin is VG by the book. I should sell it as a Fine-12 and sleep like a baby. The only excuse for this (I am guilty also) is to reflect the value of the coin in today's market. It should be informative if Mr. Snow could tell us its value and we can see what grade that value matches on the price sheets. NOTE: This is dealer/commercial TPGS approach as they claim to put a value on the coin by assigning a grade to it. Did I make sense?

I grade a coin and look up its value. I believe commercial graders put a value on the coin first and equate the grade to that value. That's possibly why that VG+ coin is graded VF.

 

PCGS sometime missed the MS 70 grade, kinda over grade some of the coins. NGC also can do that as well. I see ICG grades much better. Most buyers don't go that route and Yes PCGS and NGC are pretty much guarantee to sell more. I just got a few PCGS coins that I've bought off ebay and they don't look MS70 to me. They are starting to lack off on their grading.

 

Very interesting discussion. I received a public announcement email from NGC's Mark Salzberg stating the troublesome grading trends at PCGS. The claim was that their competition were becoming more and more inconsistent with their grading, and giving more lenient grades (excerpt below). Obviously, this position and view comes from a conflict of interest, but I'm wondering if the OP's example echos Salzberg's claims and sentiments.

Over the last five years or so, I have noticed a perplexing trend at PCGS. There has been a dramatic increase in the grades assigned by PCGS for a wide range of coin types and, consequently, I believe that this has caused an extraordinary reduction in the value of many PCGS-certified coins.

As an NGC grading finalizer for the last 30 years, I have worked to ensure the accuracy and consistency of NGC’s grading. I have also closely observed the grading standards employed by our competitor and I can say with confidence that I believe that the grading standards PCGS uses today are completely different from the standards it used 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

It is my belief that the sudden change in PCGS grading standards around five years ago is harmful not just to collectors of PCGS-certified coins, but to the entire hobby.​

 

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/holy-ngc-just-took-pcgs-behind-the-woodshed.289663/

 

If I spent my day looking at today's modern coins which mostly grade 69 or 70 I'd end up in a trance and end up seeing everything the same; especially if I was required to grade 800+/day.

 

Not yet they don't.

 

This being an 1877 Indian cent with a good surface, even wear and, in general very pleasing, I would buy and sell this coin as Fine-12.
Even though some leeway is given to the 1877, this is too much. Must have been sent in by a high volume dealer. Yeah, I said it!