PCGS Regrade Question

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Dima, May 23, 2020.

  1. Dima

    Dima Member Supporter

    Howdy folks,

    I recently sent a few coins to PCGS for a regrade - 1, 2, and 3. The order is near completion on PCGS's side - grade and pictures posted and CC charged. However, I noticed that my existing cert numbers didn't update and instead they generated 3x new cert numbers for me. I was under the impression that my existing certs would be updated with new grade and holder type.

    My question: how do I reconcile this? Surely, I can import the new certs and copy/paste all the info I had on them, but I'm wondering about the population reports; technically, these three coins are each listed twice.

    Any input greatly appreciated :)
     
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  3. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Input:

    1. Join the PCGS forum at Collectors Universe.
    2. Copy and paste your question in their appropriate forum.

    Thank me very much! :angelic::D
     
  4. Dima

    Dima Member Supporter

  5. frankjg

    frankjg Well-Known Member

    I don’t understand the whole “regrade” thing.

    Wouldn’t PCGS stand by the grade they gave it originally? It’s not like coins improve as they sit in slabs.

    Seems like a money grab. I’d be leery of a company that takes my money and then admits they didn’t get it right the first, second, third.... time, but happily keeps taking my money until they get it right.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  6. calcol

    calcol Supporter! Supporter

    It's not a matter of "right". With a 70-point scale with some half-grades (i.e. pluses), there will be variation. One person grading the same coin over and over with a decent time interval between gradings will not always come up with the same grade. Same also applies to a small group of graders. It's collector demand and hope for a better grade within the variation that drives regrading. Of course the grading services are happy to comply with the demand.

    Cal
     
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  7. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    frankjg, posted: "I don’t understand the whole “regrade” thing. o_O

    Wouldn’t PCGS stand by the grade they gave it originally? It’s not like coins improve as they sit in slabs."

    You are correct, the coins don't improve. However, their value may increase and the "coin grading GAME set of Non-STANDARDS" gets more loose as time goes by.

    I use a group of proof Franklins in TPGS slabs to illustrate "gradeflation" in class. They were graded 64 & 65 in 1986-67 and are now easily 67's and 68's.

    "Seems like a money grab. I’d be leery of a company that takes my money and then admits they didn’t get it right the first, second, third.... time, but happily keeps taking my money until they get it right."

    :rolleyes: Them that makes the rules...

    Someone once say something like "any goin worth grading once is worth grading several times." The market cannot have PR-67 and 68 coins slabbed as PR-64 or 65. That really looks bad!
     
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  8. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    You say you sent them in for regrade. You sent them in in the old PCGS holders right? If so they would crack them out, give them new certificate numbers, grade them, and then compare to the original grades. If the upgraded or stayed the same they get sent back and the old numbers eventually will be deleted and the pops adjusted. If there was a downgrade then they owe you some compensation along with the coins, and the old numbers and pops will eventually be adjusted.

    If you cracked them out and sent them in you get new numbers and the old numbers and pops don't get adjusted unless you sent the labels along with them.

    If you sent them for grade review then they should not get new numbers unless the grades change.
     
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  9. calcol

    calcol Supporter! Supporter

    Grading is a subjective activity. The same person grading the same coin over and over with an interval to allow forgetfulness will not always come up with the same grade for it. Same is true for a small group of graders. Statistically speaking, there is variance in grading ... and it will be there even without a change in standards and no matter how expert and conscientious the graders.

    Look at the grades for coins in a GTG post on cointalk ... usually a good spread. Professionals will also have a spread ... just won't be as big ... i.e. less variance. There is variance between graders and also variance within a grader or group of graders if asked to do serial grades on the same coins. This latter is what affects regrading ... often called repetition variance.

    Grading services may try to lower the variance by letting graders know the current grade of the coin. If they know the current grade, they have to justify in their own minds disputing the grade assigned by their predecessors (it may even be their grade!). This will bias them toward not changing the grade. I've heard different stories as to whether graders know the existing grade of a coin.

    So, a coin owner can use the variance in regrading or reconsideration (these are a little different) to try for a better grade and sometimes be successful.

    Grading services stand by their grade only if the grade goes down in a regrade or reconsideration. If your coin goes up in grade, well ... you lucked out by hitting the upside of the bell curve for grading.

    Cal
     
  10. St Gaudens collector

    St Gaudens collector Active Member

    Regrades are useful if you want to take another run at CAC.

    I'm pretty sure the finalizer knows what was on the old slab so it will probably only go up 1/2 grade per submission.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
  11. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    Have you never seen a coin that was undergraded? I know we collectively like to tease the TPGs for overgrading, but they certainly make mistakes in both directions. Sometimes they call roll friction on Liberty's leg wear and grade a mint state SLQ AU58.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Other times they simply undergrade the coin from a numerical standpoint. I bought this Jefferson Nickel for $12, cracked it, and resubmitted it for a 2 point jump and full steps. We can blame some nefarious change in grading standards or we can look at the coin and see that the original grade was punitive and incorrect based on NGC's own standards. I used my knowledge of their standards to identify a coin that was severely undergraded and resubmitted it to make a tidy profit.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    I think I like the nickel at the original grade better.
     
  13. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    I think if you saw it in hand, you would change your mind. It had fantastic toning and blazing luster.
     
  14. Jim Dale

    Jim Dale Active Member

    I decided a while ago that it isn't worth getting my coins graded. I don't trust them anymore. I won't be selling my coins and I don't show them to anyone because I don't trust friends enough to show my coins. I don't want anyone to know that I have coins and I only have 1 friend that I trust, but not enough to show my coins. My expensive coins are in 2 safe deposit boxes at my credit union. My wife doesn't have access to them. Every correspondence I have had with PCGS and NGC has ended badly, either because they are incompetent, stupid, or don't care, so why send coins into TPG that you don't trust and don't care?
    And to send in a coin again... and again... just gives them an opportunity to rip you off again and mess your coin up like someone on this web had them do.
    The world today is not a place to trust people. Anyway, thanks to all the comments that are in this web. You guys do a great job and help me a lot.
     
  15. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    PCGS and NGC are neither stupid or incompetent, and while they generally do care there are limits to customer service. If you are consistently having problems with multiple companies the problem is likely either the demand is unreasonable or the approach is aggressive.

    If you're the only person with access to the box you're basically just donating them to the credit union
     
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  16. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    I know a lot of collectors with the same opinion of the TPGS. I'm going to suggest that you bite the bullet and send a few of your best coins in for grading. Hopefully they will not come back with low grades and POLISHED as is usually the case with secretive collectors. I'll also suggest you put your wife on the box. If you don't trust her either, you are in bigger trouble than you know.
     
  17. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    So have you picked out your cave yet?
     
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