Now, later, never????

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Barry Murphy, Aug 25, 2019.

  1. Barry Murphy

    Barry Murphy Well-Known Member

    Just pondering....

    On occasion coins are posted here by members that have issues that the member is not aware of, be that tooling, repairs, forgery or other issues. The member is quite happy with his coin and wants to share it with everyone, and is not really looking for opinions, he just wants to share his coin.

    In most cases, when the member has not asked for opinions, I chose to remain silent, not wanting to burst any bubbles or dampen any enthusiasm.

    Is this the best course to take, or would it be better to point out the issues? Personally I’d rather know now rather than later that a coin I purchased had problems.

    How do others feel? Would you rather know now, find out later, or never find out?


    Barry Murphy
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  3. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    I'd rather know, painful though it might be. I have several tooled and at least one modern forgery and it took me a long time to realize it.

    How the information is given makes a difference.

    "Your coin is an obvious fake/tooled and you're an idiot for buying it." Not good :D.

    "I'm sorry to say that your coin has signs of casting and matches a known fake. Here's a link to the match". Good.

    "Unfortunately your coin has extensive tooling. Here's an example without tooling." Good.

    Or, PM the member if you think they might want to digest the information privately first, but ultimately it benefits all of us to have such things mentioned publicly.
  4. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    As someone who has recently experienced this kind of situation, I am for full disclosure. I dont want to labour under any delusions.
  5. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    I like to know one way or another. I admit I sometimes wait weeks or longer before sharing new coins, so if there was an issue, my window to return it may close, but it doesn't happen often.

    That's why I get so frustrated when many times, my new posts get so little replies. There could be that 1 poster, whom I value their opinion on, may see something that I or others who did take the time to reply, did not see, & I could a problem coin.

    That's why I try and bump up posts that get buried fast.

    Many times I am aware of the issue, porous, off-center, over-cleaned. But there have been several instances where a fake was pointed out to me or a coin or two was tooled, that fooled me over the years here or Forvm. And I appreciated the help and took a course of action to remedy the problem.
    Marsyas Mike likes this.
  6. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    This is a tough subject. If I were to offer comments, I would do it through a PM. That way a OP won't feel called out in front of the group.

    However, I always find it a great learning opportunity when experienced ancient coin collectors point out significant deficiencies. I learn a lot that way
  7. Pishpash

    Pishpash Supporter! Supporter

    I would certainly want to know sooner rather than later. It would give me the opportunity of returning the coin.
    Carl Wilmont and Andres2 like this.
  8. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus Supporter

    I would rather know than not know. I think the PM idea is best. Then the coin owner can decide to post to the thread with the suspicious coin.
    Carl Wilmont, Alegandron and Pishpash like this.
  9. RichardT

    RichardT Well-Known Member

    I think I might know which coin you're referring to. I felt the same dilemma... point it out or not? But then again I may be mistaken... I cannot claim to be an expert.

    However in your case since you have the expertise I'd think it will be a kindness to let the coin owner know.
    TIF likes this.
  10. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    If you're going to do so, BE SURE you know what you're talking about. For example, when I first posted this sestertius of Didia Clara, I was told it was tooled from a Julia Domna sestertius.

    Now, I had purchased the coin from a long-standing and reputable dealer with a lifetime guarantee and return policy. I researched the coin and had done a die study on the coin before I posted it here. The coin is NOT a tooled Julia Domna; it was struck with obverse die 3, reverse die H, as described in Woodward, "The Coinage of Didius Julianus and His Family." Num Chron. 121:71, 1961. It is a reverse die-match to BMC 40 and BMC 41 in the British Museum collection.

    The only kind of fake it could possibly be is a cast copy of a genuine coin. It matches no known cast forgeries. It's the real deal.

    DON'T call a coin into question unless you have a high degree of certainty.

    Didia Clara HILAR TEMPOR sestertius.jpg
    cmezner, Volodya, SmokinJoe and 9 others like this.
  11. Pavlos

    Pavlos You pick out the big men. I'll make them brave!

    I agree with everything that is already said. I would rather know it now, perhaps be a bit disappointed, but I can atleast immediately contact the seller and request a refund/return.
    Andres2 and Roman Collector like this.
  12. catadc

    catadc Well-Known Member

    "Now" gives the possibility for a return in case of a short "warranty" period.
    Stevearino likes this.
  13. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I want to know ASAP. I want to know because I may be able to return it. I want to know because I don't like to make a fool out of myself (rarely succeed). I want to know because I learn from my mistakes (as well as the mistakes from others). Bottom line: I want to know!!
  14. jb_depew

    jb_depew Well-Known Member

    If I ever post a coin that has authenticity problems, I would love to know about them. Critical feedback is always welcome.
    Stevearino and Marsyas Mike like this.
  15. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    And remember that troll who came in here (under a couple of different user names, too), telling our Flavian experts that all their coins were fakes? This sort of behavior helps nobody.

    If you call out a fake, back it up with evidence. THIS is the way to do it. Kudos to @Lolli for his hard work and evidence-based approach.
  16. Ryro

    Ryro They call me the 13th Caesar Supporter

    Certainly, the sooner the better! I recently had a coin politely pointed out to me as a possible fake. I did the research, found that it was and made a post about it to help others learn.
    I only wish I knew sooner. I'd posted it several times before and nobody noticed or nobody said anything and now that auction house is out of business and I don't appear to be able to get a refund.
    cmezner and Marsyas Mike like this.
  17. thejewk

    thejewk Well-Known Member

    I'll echo what has been said above. Respectfully and politely tell the poster.

    We've all seen muppets with no clue condemning coins left, right and centre without a shred of evidence, but those posts (mainly elsewhere and not here) are so blatantly obvious, and other posters are usually quick to point out the error, so I see no real lasting harm.

    A quick post pointing out problematic elements of a coin, however, if done with politeness can really prevent future headaches and can provide a learning exercise for everyone involved.
    SmokinJoe and Marsyas Mike like this.
  18. pprp

    pprp Well-Known Member

    Having such a high level expert (imho the best around) offering a free and unbiased opinion on posted coins would be a blessing...
  19. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter Basileus Megalos

    I definitely want to know. I don't think I have yet purchased a fake, but any feedback on a new coin that is not legit is certainly welcome. And, sooner rather than later.
    Marsyas Mike likes this.
  20. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish) Supporter

    I also would want to know. @Barry Murphy , If you see a coin of mine that you feel requires comment please feel free to do so and with my gratitude. We are lucky to have you as a member here.
    Marsyas Mike and TIF like this.
  21. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 65 years

    If I'm going to post images of a coin on a public forum then I'd expect to get opinions on it; both negative and positive. I've been a member of CT long enough to know which members opinions I should listen to.
    John Skelton and Marsyas Mike like this.
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