Norfed-Liberty Dollars

Someone's putting my collection to shame. :yes:
Very impressive. Still working on getting a silver Ron Paul myself. Prices for all of the silvers and some of the coppers are just really 'out there' at the moment.

 

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WOW! Those are some ugly*** coins! It would be great if the Secret Service decided to crack down on these coins. I'm surprised they're not illegal to own yet.

 

Thanks Tmoney!
If I come across any or have some extras I'll let you know.
I know I have more somewhere...

 

In Chambersburg, Gettysburg and a few other towns in PA you can use them a tender to shop in designated stores.
They have a little sign out fron that says: "Liberty Dollar"

 

They have cracked down on them, hence Von Nothaus being jail!

 

On a side note, these are all MEDAL TURN rather than a regular coin alignment.

just FYI

 

a new one for me...

One of my favorite ct threads so I thought I'd share my latest norfeds...

 

I was somewhat surprised to find the ANA convention completly void of these pieces. I was looking around for them but did not find any on display. I wonder if dealers are shying away from them because of their possible legal issues?

 

To the best of my knowledge there is not a single legal issue as far as buying/selling these numismatic/bullion pieces go.
There are other reasons why you might not have seen any. Possibly the rarity (ability for dealers to get their hands on them at the right or any price) or even the unwillingness of dealers to sell them once they have them.
I imagine there are also plenty of people out there who still don't know anything about the Norfed/Liberty Dollars in the first place as well.

 

I do know this about premiums on them. There was a listing for a California 1oz issue, trading 4 norfeds for 5oz ASE, and it took him less than 12 hours to trade out of a tube of 20. I'm a moron, as he offered them to me before listing at $5 per coin premium and I declined.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<,this dude is an idiot <<<<<<<I know<<<<<<<<<<<

 

I saw this on a blog today where apparently there is a chance these coins might be confiscated.

http://johngaltfla.com/wordpress/2011/08/29/liberty-dollars-may-be-subject-to-confiscation/

 

How would they confiscate?
Why?
GREAT!!!!

 

I sure hope the court case against the Norfed dollars is beina appealed. I see some constitutional issues with it.

 

What's so hard to understand. By putting USA and dollars on the coins, they're asking them to be confiscated. They're counterfeit coins!!!!! If they were marketed as bullion they wouldn't be in jail right now. Give it a rest with this anti-government BS.

 

Ok, thanks for letting us know you're in charge.

 

the federal reserve chairman and all the federal reserve chiefs ought to be arrested since one of the main sticking points in the case was a private company creating its own currency. the federal reserve is a private organization.

 

All ya gotta do is read the last paragraph to see how the gov't looked at Von Nohaus and his co-defendants. I've bolded the part that slams the prison door on the man. Whether you agree with it or not doesn't help Bernie or anyone else. Plain and simple the dude messed up. He thought there would be enough support for his idea and there wasn't. My personal belief is he got greedy and because he was egotistical he blew it. Too bad, so sad but it happens all the time. Unfortunately for him he may not get a chance to learn from his mistake, at least not in the free world, only in prison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_von_NotHaus

On July 28, 2009, von NotHaus entered a plea of not guilty.[SUP][7][/SUP]
On March 18, 2011, after a 90 minute jury deliberation [5] von NotHaus was found guilty on various counts, including the making of "counterfeit coins" (resembling legal tender coins).[SUP][8][/SUP][SUP][9][/SUP][SUP][10][/SUP]

Attorney for the Western District of North Carolina, Anne M. Tompkins, described Bernard von NotHaus and the Liberty dollar as "a unique form of domestic terrorism” that is trying “to undermine the legitimate currency of this country.”[SUP][11][/SUP] The Justice Department press release quotes her as saying: “While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country".

 

I'm thinking an overly agressive justice dept. along with other various agencies of the US goverment took the opportunity define new legal theory based on laws that were never intended to stop private bartering. It's up to the courts now to determine if the decision by the lower court, and for that matter the statutes used are even constitutional.

There are issues with this, as the decisions were based on legislation that has not been tested for constitutionality. I don't think there was an intent to pass this off as US currency. In fact, the coins were clearly being used as an alternative to US currency and this is what has the powers to be concerned. It takes away their control over the people.

I also think the word "terrorist" is used all to often now where it shouldn't be used. It's like the word "communist" during the McCarthy era. People will do well for themselves to remembet that time lest it get repeated again.

 

I disagree with the Attorney's comments.

If you accept the argument that the US Constitution makes Liberty dollars legal tender due to their silver or gold content...and fiat currency is also legal tender...because the Federal government "declares it so", then Gresham's law applies (bad money drives out good money). This means that the fiat currency drives the Liberty dollar out of circulation. Therefore, by definition, the Liberty dollar can't "...undermine the legitimate currency of this country.”

The Attorney's argument only holds if either US fiat currency or the Liberty dollar is NOT legal tender. Since the US Constitution clearly states that "No State shall...make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts", then the ruling is a defacto ruling that US fiat coinage is NOT legal tender.

Note: The US Constitution doesn't say that the State needs to actually make the coins, it simply says the State must accept them as Tender in Payment of Debts. If there's a question of the assayed content of the Liberty dollars, that would be a State (not Federal) issue.

U.S. Constitution, Art. I Sec. 10 Cl. 1

Gresham's Law

Bernard von Nothaus' actions are "free Speech"...like burning the US Flag. I don't support burning the US Flag, but it's protected speech. He's simply pointing out that the US Constitution directs States to accept gold and silver coins (only) as Payment of Debts and his coins meets a need at the State level. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, but he should be allowed to express his opinions anyway he chooses.

He's hardly "...a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country" :rolling:

EDIT: Ron Paul's take on thing's (old press conference).

Here's Ron Paul questioning Ben Bernanke in Mar 2008 (note the gold/silver ticker at the top)






​

 

I see the ANA would not allow these dollars to be exhibited at the convention due to possible confiscation. I'm sure this information quickly circulated on the boarse floor and dealers took preventative measures. Per the article re-published on 09/29/2011 by Coin World, the government is also reversing their position on confiscation these coins from private collectors as well. Perhaps we are furnishing an easy trail for them to follow by posting our comments? I think I'll go on record for selling all my Liberty Dollars as of this date. Just to play safe! :>)