Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by oobaa47, Sep 25, 2017.
You mentioned golden state mint previously, have to check them out. Thanks much!!
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Just noticed sdbullion charges $7.77 for shipping......so the "our choice" for .39 over spot comes out to .58 over spot when you factor the shipping costs in if you are purchasing 40 coins (comes out to an extra .19 per oz)........
My grandson called me and said he purchased 7 - 1oz. Silver Towne Morgan Stackables @ 17.43 each...spot was 16.84 at the time. And no shipping cost. Total: $122.01. Does that sound right?
I wish he had told me he was going to do it...7? I could have added to that and purchased the buillion starter pak and gotten 10. Oh well. Here is the link he sent me:https://www.jmbullion.com/1-oz-silvertowne-morgan-stack-round/
Yup, sounds right...
Another reason why I recommend JM, ampex and provident. (free shipping) Additional costs (shipping fees, credit card, and money wire payments) add up and must be included when you calculate costs.
Newbie observation...maybe somebody can help me out....
If precious metals are supposed to be a hedge against inflation...let's say in the past 20 years, the us dollar has depreciated on average 2-3% (ie, inflation was annually 2-3%). And if precious metals, let's say silver, is calculated in us dollar terms, wouldn't it also have to increase in value 2-3% just to maintain it's "real" value in terms of us dollars? So silver has decreased in value approx 51% in the past 5 years, but since is relative to us dollars, it's "real" decrease is substantially more than that.
I hope I'm writing what I'm trying to say. Let's just hypothetically say if silver ten years ago was 17 per oz and today it's also 17 per oz, nominally it hasn't appreciated or depreciated at all. But in real dollar terms, it actually decreased substantially because of the annual inflationary forces on the dollar every year. Silver would have to appreciated, at a minimum, 2-3% just to break even due to inflation. Am I making any sense?
Silver Gold Bull also runs a 10 ounce at spot deal. It is a bar. I did it a few months ago and it was a smooth transaction. Link is:
The problem with your logic is that logic cannot be applied towards a rigged market. The basic fundamentals of economics don't apply anymore. To make a really long story a lot shorter you have to understand what they are doing. First off, the dollar is currently worthless. It is debt based and has absolutely nothing backing it so comparing it to gold or silver is ludicrous at best. They are printing it to the tune of 85 billion per month and the current silver to dollar ratio is $745 per ounce! Bottom right hand corner. http://www.usdebtclock.org/
The central banks are suppressing the price of silver and gold by continually shorting thousands of contracts. If you look at current silver charts you can see when they drop a large amount of contracts onto the market as it almost immediately causes it to drop. What they are doing is highly illegal and when someone does something illegal and its allowed to go on without prosecution that only means that the govt. is allowing them to do it. Why? Its simple, if silver was released it would find its natural equilibrium around $130 an ounce(I am guesstimating) and the dollar would be toast. If you look at the price of silver 100 years ago it was right at $17 an ounce with adjusted inflation. As of late, they keep moving the yard stick that measures adjusted inflation so its hard to know where we really are today.
While all this is going on(silver price suppression) guess what the central banks are a massing? Silver, and lots of it. JP Morgan alone has 650 million ounces and Scotia bank has even more. That is the top two I know of. Its one of the oldest story's in the book, suppress the price of something, buy it all up then let the price go way up and sell. It is my belief that currently silver is the buy of the century, many others believe this as well. Eventually they will lose control of it and it will find its equilibrium. I don't know when but I want to be in. If it doesn't happen in my lifetime my kids will enjoy what I have gained and they are well aware of what to do. Remember PM's in general are a long term play. The dollar doesn't even fit the definition of money, it is fiat currency. Silver and gold ARE money and have been for the last 6000yrs. or so. Most people have forgotten that and have been lulled asleep. Just keep trading those worthless green dollars for real money. Hope that helps.
Good video on the currency/banking scam.
I can not blame bullion sellers for claiming the large amount of silver that is being held ( both for registered owners, including many bullion companies themselves) by GS and other banking entities, but the larger mass is still required by law to back the paper contracts and options bought and sold. The margins of paper trades is extremely lucrative, and 99% of the time doesn't involve the actual exchange of the metal, that is done in cash, so the amount grows when silver is low or less available a particular year, and GS and others will know way before the bullion market. Bullion dealers have to use the contract market, along with jewelers, auto makers, although organic substitutes and the increasing world use of electric vehicles will predict a decrease eventually of the need for silver. It has very little intrinsic value as a metal, mainly what humans remember of "olden days". Stackers and the bullion suppliers are GS big support to maintain a floor on the price ( we are way above that now). If GS and the other banks didn't maintain such a large pile so they can issue contracts and options to "paper gamblers" , and sold it , the price would crash completely IMO. I do not like " naked shorts " and it is illegal for all US and most countries. Remember GS can issue huge number of short contracts because of their storage.
I know some will not believe this angle, and that is OK, everyone's personal decision. But most would not believe GS telling you, so why should one believe bullion dealers and newsletters as it is to their advantage to keep people buying ? Because it is what they want you to believe, just as smokers believed tobacco wouldn't really hurt a person. Read a wider range of information. IMO. No ill intent meant to anyone. Jim
"increasing world use of electric vehicles will predict a decrease eventually of the need for silver."
Explain that one since one has nothing to do with the other.
You are correct, thanks for reading, The platinum group was still on my mind. Jim
No problem, that's what I thought you meant since its used in catalytic converters.
Looking for something like this ?
I keep hearing about milk spots and tarnishing. For you guys stacking for the past 2-3 years, is it safe to say the majority of your silver has milk spots and/or tarnishing? If my plan is to stack and store it for several years, that would be a concern of mine. Especially if buyers seem to use that as an excuse for offering lower prices for your silver.
Oobaa, none of my silver has any milk spotting or visible tarnishing and I've had some 7+ years now. Tarnishing you won't be able to avoid, it's slowly going to happen as long as oxygen can reach your coins. The rate of which that occurs can be mediated with proper storage.
As for milk spots, certain coins have a higher chance than others, Canadian government minted bullion seems especially susceptible. @Kentucky might be able to provide some more information on milk spots, I remember a while back he was doing some research, not sure if he still is.
Actually I was looking to buy some from some members to do the research on, but no one stepped forward.
One thing I noticed is that govt coins have quite a significant premium when compared to rounds and bars. Is it worth it to pay so much more per oz is they're not numismatic and you are just stacking for investment purposes? Having said that, provident has Britannia's for 1.59 per oz over spot for this weekend only. Is that something to jump on or will better govt coin deals often come by? I've only looked at bars and rounds until this point....
Well Kentucky if I ever end up with any milk spots I'll let you know
Oobaa, you're right in that government bullion usually does command a premium over generic rounds and bars. I pay a premium for government minted bullion because of at least my perception they are more difficult to counterfeit. Avoiding counterfeits can also be done by purchasing from reputable dealers and learning as much as you can about what you're buying. That includes design attributes, weight, diameter, magnetic properties, etc. That being said, there are great fakes out there for everything, and it's possible to fake both government bullion and generics.
The one aspect of premiums is that they stay relatively constant when buying and selling. So you if you're looking to get as many ounces for your dollar as possible, you'll likely find your best deals buying rounds and bars (assuming you want to stay .999+ fineness). However, when you go to sell, you'll get close to spot. If you buy government bullion, you'll likely pay a couple dollars over spot more than you would for generic. But again, when you go to sell you'll still likely get over spot, making it a similar investment to generic.
What I personally like to do is look for those deals on government issued (like this weekends Provident deal) and buy then. I like the collectible aspect of government issued as well as the safety. I buy what I like even when there are high premiums because I'm more a collector than an investor, along with those Britannias I'll be picking up some Lunar Series dogs as well for over $26/oz. I also believe Lunar Series coins will maintain those high premiums when I go to sell so I'm not worried.
Long story short, buy what makes the most sense for you, understand that premiums go both ways, and I think you'll enjoy buying bullion
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