Monarch vs. Scottsdale vs. Johnson Matthey

Hi everyone,

I am in the process of considering buying about 2-3 bars in either 5 oz or 10 oz increments. Any thoughts on Monarch vs. Scottsdale vs. Johnson Matthey?

I can get the Monarch for $.95 over spot for 10 oz bars

Scottsdale has 10 oz poured Academy bars for $1.35 over spot

Apmex has 10 oz JM for $1.99 over spot (of course these are secondary not new)

 

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One more thing is there a risk in buying Monarch as they do not have that "big" name yet?

 

I love the look of the scottsdale but see a $1.90ish over spot. Where did you get the great price on the scottsdale hand poured 10 oz?

 

There is risk in buying anything you don't know a lot about. A well known brand may turn out to be a counterfeit. An unknown name may turn out to have weight or purity problems. Just because something is marked ".999 one troy ounce" doesn't mean that it is. You may even buy a perfect bar from a reputable dealer, but if that dealer runs into problems at a later date, it could taint their entire product line. Just about everything that can go wrong has gone wrong at one time or another in the coin and bullion world.

 

Not sure if that helps me or not. I guess according to the above I should not buy any of them so i guess my question is what are all of you buying and is there any recommendations?

I would think if Apmex is selling JM bars they would check to see if they are counterfit

it does not seem like anyone knows anything about Academy. I see them on YouTube all the time but can't get anyone to comment on them

 

This group here is strongly coin-oriented, but I like bars, particularly the small ones (Ingots). I don't have much experience with silver ingots, however if you check out Apmex's buy-sell page, you'll see that they buy a number of these products back. You can calculate for yourself which bars have the tightest buy sell spread, or just buy ones you like. The smaller sizes--1 to 10 ounces-- are probably a better buy.

Apmex is unlikely to sell you a counterfeit bar! Their products are guaranteed, if you're nervous, give it a nice tap when you get it,and make sure it sounds right.

If silver goes up the way people expect, I don't foresee a great many problems selling the stuff. I sold a paper bag full of grubby old silver for spot during the Hunt brothers frenzy, and I didn't have trouble finding a buyer. It's just not that complicated.

http://www.apmex.com/APMEXTop40/Default.aspx

 

And I think your spot on... pardon the pun :whistle: If your buying from Apmex... I think you can proceed with a very high degree of confidence as regards authenticity.

I have heard of Academy... if memory serves me well they produced a 10 ounce stacker (i.e., the bars would stack in an interlocking way). And I'm pretty sure Academy has been around for a while.

Another name for bars is A Mark. In the same league as Academy.

But personally I would go with JM. Name and brand recognition makes selling so much easier.

About a year or so ago I had purchased some First Majestic bars... these are minted 10 ounce bars. Very well made. FM is a silver producer (miner). None-the-less when I went to sell them I had some difficulty. Local dealers never heard of FM (or so they said) and several of the national players (say like APMEX) didn't yet have experience with FM products.

Now I only purchase products with top shelf brand names.


MSL

 

personally I like the JM hallmark. I also know that if I had to do a counter transaction to get cash I would want a high quality brand.

 

Silver is..

Sometimes it's worth paying a bit more for a recognizable trusted brand.

 

I have some plain vanilla silver but only from when I was younger. For the past 10 years I will buy NOTHING other than either JM or Engelhard. Period. They cost more up front (higher premium) but are easier to sell and command a better premium on the sale side.

When you have a choice are you going to drink rotgut or top shelf?

peace,

rono

 

Does anyone have any recommendations on where to get JM bars? I know Apmex has them but they will not guarantee the condition of them, may be tarnished, etc.

 

I've noticed that the Scottsdale Stackers carry a higher resale premium than other bullion on ebay though. That's usually my best indicator for market demand with more than 15,000 silver bullion listings at any given time, it's a good way of keeping tabs on the market.

Also will note that JM/Englehard are generally the brands that get knocked off. Engle is bankrupt (so no longer producing) and JM doesn't make new retail size bars anymore. So if you want NEWLY minted bullion in these names, out of luck.

Also, for those that like to buy American, JM is foreign owned.

Old Silver bull market vs Today's silver bull -- and personal preference of course.

Though a bit more at first glance, the prices are for credit cards/paypal and free shipping w/ shipment within 2 days. Most places do the bait and switch at checkout and/or take several weeks (NWTMint takes 3 months still) Thus the prices are right in line with others.

Some decent information on Academy at their website: http://www.theacademygroup.net and I heard that they built the windows for the Luxor Hotel for example.

 

I've heard good things about these people, although I haven't dealt with them myself: http://www.golddealer.com/

They seem to have a nice selection of bars. They have a very informative website, and if you call during the day might might be able to answer some questions.

And not to drive you away or anything , but Kitco forums often has discussions among buyers of bars, so you can also search over there.

 

I've bought from them and did not have a problem.

 

I have bought from Monarch Precious Metals several times with excellent experiences. In fact, I should be receiving another 20 one ounce bars tomorrow. MPM will buy back THEIR hallmarked bullion at 99% of spot price. They are hand poured and stamped but the prices are decent, they have discounts often, and the service is excellent. I also like the odd sizes of 2 and 3 ounce bars.

I usually go in on a shared deal with a co-worker to split shipping cost. I will post up a pic of my latest haul when they come in.

 

I myself buy bars from Northwest Territorial mint and really like the Pan American bars and also their signature NWTM bars, They do take long to ship but other then that I am completely happy with their product.

 

Post retracted at request of poster xtrionic

 

I just looked at a new on-line dealer. Check out Provident Metals. I saw them on their site. Hope I was of some help.

 

After I got jerked around with NWTMint, I started to only use APMEX but have recently switched to Provident Metals. They ship just as quick as APMEX but have better "small order" prices.

Seems like a great company! I will try them again with a larger order next time.

Having said that, APMEX has Academy 10 bars now, almost the same as Scottsdale but much cheaper.

 

when in doubt just buy silver eagles or plain low grade Morgans/Peace or a bag of 90% junk.
as someone mentioned above, dont just look at the pric you are paying today. Look at the price you can sell for today . thats the premium for owning, if you have to pay 20 when the spot is 18 you have to hold until the spot comes up to 20 to break even. check that spread for bars, rounds, junk etc make your best deal. this is investing not collecting