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<p>[QUOTE="Vess1, post: 887360, member: 13650"]Seems a lot of great points have already been made. Though I would warn against assuming things can or will always be the way they've been. People in the 1840s never could have dreamed of what would transpire in the 1940s. Nor could people in the 1940s dream up what we'll be doing in 2040. </p><p><br /></p><p> In the last couple of centuries, things have advanced extremely rapidly. 100 years seems like a very long time to people but realistically it is not. Look at all the changes and progress that happens over a 100 year span. Both the good and bad have been DRASTIC to say the least.</p><p><br /></p><p> We've only been off the gold standard for about 40 years!! We're still early on in this experiment with a floating currency, that has failed empires in the past. The national debt didn't hit 1 trillion until 1980. Now we're at 12 trillion in 2010. We'll be at 22+ trillion in 2020. Our social programs are already feeling the strain from what is just the beginning of the huge baby boomer retirement wave. </p><p><br /></p><p> I feel that it is prudent to think as realistically as possible. That <u>may </u>mean things change drastically some day. I believe your statement to be <b>EXTREMELY</b> short sighted given the facts that we are all aware of. </p><p><br /></p><p> It's unbelievable to me that our system has worked up to this point. Since there is zero backing to the paper they print and also given the fact that they print an endless supply now. There is nothing backing it but a belief. It's fancy paper with a special complicated process to create, issued by the government. So that = value to everyone. <b>Very flimsy definition of money in reality.</b> Cash can't even hold up to the physical riggers of commerce but for a few years before it's worn out and unusable!! </p><p><br /></p><p> I would like to hope in a total SHTF scenario, that groups of people could band together, peacefully survive and barter amongst each other, using PMs or whatever. Whatever cash was left in use would be worn out in a few years as nobody would be replacing it anymore. It's possible some wouldn't want it out of their disgust alone, since it came from the govt. that failed them. Others wouldn't want it as they finally saw through the smoke screen and realized what a scam had been played on everyone.</p><p><br /></p><p> Whatever scenario, I suspect it would take a while for things to calm down and enormous loss of life before anything got back to a "peaceful new start." If it was 1790, I wouldn't worry about it. What was once a mainly self reliant, small population has become an enormous population entirely dependent on the system. With few people prepared to deal with a catastrophe lasting longer than 1 week!! Few people posses even the most basic of skills beyond what's required for their jobs. The network we rely on is very fragile. </p><p><br /></p><p> As I've said before, once people get hungry, they would all be desperate to survive. In a month or less we could have total chaos. At that point, none of you together could combine enough cash and/or PMs to buy firearms or ammo off of me. I don't care what you've got. We'd have to get through that stage first. </p><p><br /></p><p> Once things calmed down, I would have no interest in the cash. A carton of eggs, shoes, ammo, maybe? If you possess none of those things, I might sell you something for a few ounces of silver, that I could transfer to somebody else that DID have what I needed. (Assuming we could make it to that point.)</p><p> I'd roughly estimate there are at least 50% who have nothing to offer and would need to take from you in order to survive. They would have to conform or be dealt with in order for the other 50% to operate in a civilized manner once again. </p><p><br /></p><p> Nobody can deny that we have:</p><p><br /></p><p> - A huge, ever increasing population</p><p> - All dependent on a huge, very fragile network of shipping</p><p> - A large percentage that expects to be taken care of with no plan beyond <u>today</u></p><p> - A reliance on a floating currency that will be inflated indefinately to push our problems off to future generations as long as it can possibly be done </p><p> - A national debt that will never be paid off.......conventionally </p><p><br /></p><p> - have had formal devalutaions in the past with informal devaluation taking place every year. </p><p> - other countries, out of necessity, have devalued their currency and left their people out to dry</p><p><br /></p><p> If your grandparents were around in 1933, they could have turned in a $20 gold piece for a $20 bill. They could have saved that $20 bill at home for you today. And, you could take that same $20 bill and take the wife out for dinner at an average restaurant tonight. (The tip would have to be on you of course!)</p><p><br /></p><p> Or, they could have saved the $20 gold piece and gave that to you. If you feel cash is king, then I assume you would have wanted them to get the $20 bill for you?</p><p><br /></p><p> BTW, some people will accept silver or gold as payment, as good as cash. The grocery store can't, because they're obviously not set up for it. If the government collapsed, then what? Then what does the grocery store accept? Who's making what money to use? Things would change in a hurry. </p><p><br /></p><p> It may sound extreme but a terrorist or rogue nation detonating a nuke in the atmosphere would send out an EMP shutting down entire regions for not 1 week, but months or years! That's no electricity. No trucking. No communications. At the push of a button it would be welcome back to the 19th century, only with hundreds of millions of spoiled, 21st century people. In that case, good luck my friend.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Vess1, post: 887360, member: 13650"]Seems a lot of great points have already been made. Though I would warn against assuming things can or will always be the way they've been. People in the 1840s never could have dreamed of what would transpire in the 1940s. Nor could people in the 1940s dream up what we'll be doing in 2040. In the last couple of centuries, things have advanced extremely rapidly. 100 years seems like a very long time to people but realistically it is not. Look at all the changes and progress that happens over a 100 year span. Both the good and bad have been DRASTIC to say the least. We've only been off the gold standard for about 40 years!! We're still early on in this experiment with a floating currency, that has failed empires in the past. The national debt didn't hit 1 trillion until 1980. Now we're at 12 trillion in 2010. We'll be at 22+ trillion in 2020. Our social programs are already feeling the strain from what is just the beginning of the huge baby boomer retirement wave. I feel that it is prudent to think as realistically as possible. That [U]may [/U]mean things change drastically some day. I believe your statement to be [B]EXTREMELY[/B] short sighted given the facts that we are all aware of. It's unbelievable to me that our system has worked up to this point. Since there is zero backing to the paper they print and also given the fact that they print an endless supply now. There is nothing backing it but a belief. It's fancy paper with a special complicated process to create, issued by the government. So that = value to everyone. [B]Very flimsy definition of money in reality.[/B] Cash can't even hold up to the physical riggers of commerce but for a few years before it's worn out and unusable!! I would like to hope in a total SHTF scenario, that groups of people could band together, peacefully survive and barter amongst each other, using PMs or whatever. Whatever cash was left in use would be worn out in a few years as nobody would be replacing it anymore. It's possible some wouldn't want it out of their disgust alone, since it came from the govt. that failed them. Others wouldn't want it as they finally saw through the smoke screen and realized what a scam had been played on everyone. Whatever scenario, I suspect it would take a while for things to calm down and enormous loss of life before anything got back to a "peaceful new start." If it was 1790, I wouldn't worry about it. What was once a mainly self reliant, small population has become an enormous population entirely dependent on the system. With few people prepared to deal with a catastrophe lasting longer than 1 week!! Few people posses even the most basic of skills beyond what's required for their jobs. The network we rely on is very fragile. As I've said before, once people get hungry, they would all be desperate to survive. In a month or less we could have total chaos. At that point, none of you together could combine enough cash and/or PMs to buy firearms or ammo off of me. I don't care what you've got. We'd have to get through that stage first. Once things calmed down, I would have no interest in the cash. A carton of eggs, shoes, ammo, maybe? If you possess none of those things, I might sell you something for a few ounces of silver, that I could transfer to somebody else that DID have what I needed. (Assuming we could make it to that point.) I'd roughly estimate there are at least 50% who have nothing to offer and would need to take from you in order to survive. They would have to conform or be dealt with in order for the other 50% to operate in a civilized manner once again. Nobody can deny that we have: - A huge, ever increasing population - All dependent on a huge, very fragile network of shipping - A large percentage that expects to be taken care of with no plan beyond [U]today[/U] - A reliance on a floating currency that will be inflated indefinately to push our problems off to future generations as long as it can possibly be done - A national debt that will never be paid off.......conventionally - have had formal devalutaions in the past with informal devaluation taking place every year. - other countries, out of necessity, have devalued their currency and left their people out to dry If your grandparents were around in 1933, they could have turned in a $20 gold piece for a $20 bill. They could have saved that $20 bill at home for you today. And, you could take that same $20 bill and take the wife out for dinner at an average restaurant tonight. (The tip would have to be on you of course!) Or, they could have saved the $20 gold piece and gave that to you. If you feel cash is king, then I assume you would have wanted them to get the $20 bill for you? BTW, some people will accept silver or gold as payment, as good as cash. The grocery store can't, because they're obviously not set up for it. If the government collapsed, then what? Then what does the grocery store accept? Who's making what money to use? Things would change in a hurry. It may sound extreme but a terrorist or rogue nation detonating a nuke in the atmosphere would send out an EMP shutting down entire regions for not 1 week, but months or years! That's no electricity. No trucking. No communications. At the push of a button it would be welcome back to the 19th century, only with hundreds of millions of spoiled, 21st century people. In that case, good luck my friend.[/QUOTE]
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