Junk Silver, Silver Bullion, or Starting a Coin Collection

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by Eben VanEpps, Feb 13, 2017.

  1. sakata

    sakata Devil's Advocate

    One thing that no one seems to have addressed is your motivation for collecting/accumulating any of the items.

    One person did comment that there can be an learning advantage to going through junk silver, but a lot of people do it to fend of a future financial crisis in the hope that it will provide leverage for barter. Pure silver bars and rounds probably would not be as good for that because most people would not trust them, but they would be good for selling to dealer if the crisis never occurs. Coins, are probably best left as a hobby unless you have a budgets which can buy the very best.

    So which is it? Do you think the world is going to collapse? Then buy junk silver? Do you think the dollar is going to collapse? Then buy silver bars and rounds. If you think neither will collapse then enjoy your collecting?

    Personally I like to hedge my bets. I do a little of each.
     
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  3. TommyP

    TommyP BS detector

    The dollar will collapse. It's indebted to the tune of 20 trillion. Do the math on that debt and you'll soon see that this house of cards cannot continue for much longer. Simple mathematics really. So since paper will only be good for wiping or soaking up the blood from dive bombing Wall Street roof jumpers, that leaves pm's.
     
  4. Eben VanEpps

    Eben VanEpps New Member

    Sakura, my motivation for collecting coin is for the fun of the hobby. However, I don't have the deepest pockets in the world, so if I could have some potential for making more money than I spent that's always a plus. As for junk silver, I'll just stick to the random coins. Even though the nice shines silver bars are great, I like to think about how those silver coins were part of circulation and how back when they were in circulation, a person could go to the bank and ask for a roll of halves, just to open it up and find all silver coins.

    As for the dollar collapse, it may or may not happen. We could have the hyper inflation like what happened to the Duetch Mark after WW1 or we could just keep on going strong like we seem to be doing right now
     
  5. TommyP

    TommyP BS detector

    What we're seeing now is the last days of fury before the downfall. The taking and the steam generated off it simply by rapid movement. 20 trillion. Grab a calculator and do the math. It cannot continue. It will not.
     
  6. sakata

    sakata Devil's Advocate

    I every person was taxed 100% of their income it would still not generate enough money to pay the INTEREST on the national debt. Hence it can never be paid off. So the Fed has to keep bailing us out. When they stop it will be Weimar or Zimbabwe all over again and no one will accept the dollar for international commerce. Just think about that.
     
  7. TommyP

    TommyP BS detector

    We will be Zimbabwe all over again. That's my point. More bailouts, less real value, no middle income growth and hence, Zimbabwe. What good is an IOU if it has no value?
     
  8. sakata

    sakata Devil's Advocate

    A Federal Reserve Note is an IOU which government owes the Fed. No one owes the bearer anything. So from our point of view it is worse than toilet paper - at least that is usually in uncirculated condition.
     
  9. TommyP

    TommyP BS detector

    True. So, what does the debt matter than and why do certain parties make such a big deal about it if it's just a number? If that's the case then, hey, it may as well be 200 trillion and party on, right?
     
    Fjpod likes this.
  10. sakata

    sakata Devil's Advocate

    Only works as long as the dollar is the world's reserve currency. There are already lots of moves around the world to remove it from that position. It has alredy been in that position for close to the average of the previous 5 (portugal, spain, netherlands, france, britain) so it's days are numbered. And when no one wants it you better have some silver around.

    Of course, that average age of coin collectors is pretty high so it might survive most of us. The average age of ANA members, if I recall correctly, is about 62. Anyone under 50 is sure to get hit if they live a normal live span.
     
  11. TommyP

    TommyP BS detector

    Good post. If you have kids then they're likely going to get burnt bug time. I guess the oldest and richest folks will do just fine with minimal damage (comparatively). The rest of society? Not so good. The manipulation of silver prices is strategic for sure. Dark days ahead. IF THE PRES DOES WHAT HE SAYS (hopefully this doesn't get edited as this is verbatim of what was allowed through), we're all screwed.
     
  12. Fjpod

    Fjpod Active Member

    I'm certainly no expert but I am not so sure about all this gloom and doom over debt. You have to look at GDP compared to debt. I know this ratio is not good right now but the key is to make the economy grow fast enough to dwarf the debt. It will never be paid back.

    Spoken by someone with no mortgage or consumer debt .

    Government spending needs to become more responsible though.
     
  13. TommyP

    TommyP BS detector

    Why worry about spending? 20 trillion is just a number, isn't it? It debt is never incurred with the intention of being paid back then, why worry about every paying anything back? Why worry about any kind of debt? Why even keep track of the debt to begin with? No need. If on the other hand you think that debt means anything then I ask, why do banks lend out 10 times what they actually have on hand (or more)? Point is that the whole blasted system is a WEAKENING house of cards that is bound for collapse. The number is either too big to do anything about it and/or it doesn't matter whatsoever or it DOES matter. Can't be all three.
     
  14. Fjpod

    Fjpod Active Member

    Your statements don't characterize what I said. I am for responsible debt.

    You're not going to like this but you might think of the national debt as a means that has raised our standard of living. Is it a perfect system? No. Do I worry about wanton government spending and banks and corporations taking advantage of us? Yes.
     
    SchwaVB57 likes this.
  15. sakata

    sakata Devil's Advocate

    This thread seems an appropriate place to remind those who have not yet read it that The Creature from Jekyll Island should be considered essential reading for anyone interested in the topic. It is a tough read but I could not put it down and basically read it cover-to-cover in every minute of my spare time.
     
  16. Brett_in_Sacto

    Brett_in_Sacto Well-Known Member

    Sometimes there is, but it's accidental. Like when you buy a bulk Morgan lot and find MS++ coins and a couple CC mint marks.
     
  17. sakata

    sakata Devil's Advocate

    When I first started accumulating junk silver, long before I knew anything about coin grading I bought a lot of 100 Morgan and Peace dollar as junk, for around spot price. I put them away for years and didn't think anything about it. Then one day I decided to take a look at them. Several of the Morgans were borderline XF according to Photograde. But one of them, probably the worst looking, was dated 1899. AG at best but that is still a nice find at junk price because the current catalog lists it as $130 in G.
     
    SchwaVB57 and Brett_in_Sacto like this.
  18. recoinect

    recoinect Member

    I agree that the national debt is out of control, but I've been hearing doomsday scenarios regarding that for 50 years....and guess what? We're still talking about it.
    The government has been issuing T-bills at miniscule rates, so the impact isn't quite as bad as one might think. Of course, if government does not get a handle on spending, the problem will become so devastating that they will need to monetize the debt to the point where a hamburger will cost $20......and that's without cheese!
     
  19. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    +1
     
  20. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    If you have accumulated cash and want to start investing, you need to look at the entire spectrum, including stocks, bonds and PMs.

    If you don't know how the markets work, study and learn BEFORE buying.
     
    Brett_in_Sacto likes this.
  21. TommyP

    TommyP BS detector

    Debt to raise our standard of living. Now that sounds like sound economic advice. Do you think 20 trillion is responsible debt? How about the special treatment costs associated with having our Secret Service deployed to NYC? That's about a million a day so I hear. Would you consider that responsible debt since the taxpayers pick up the tab for that? Look, I'm glad you're happy with the system and think that it's perfectly fine (or at least well enough as is). I'm just trying to highlight the lunacy of said system. Does any of that appropriately characterize the thoughts you've tried to reflect?
     
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