Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Bullion Investing
>
J.P. Morgan is short more paper silver than physically exists in the world?
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="fatima, post: 1317411, member: 22143"]I don't understand what you are saying. My understanding is this. GLD & SLV are totally different than the CME. I agree with you on GLD and SLV. There is no claim on the physical asset via shorting or other means. (though there might be an exception to this)</p><p><br /></p><p>However at the CME a futures "option" for a physical commodity is an agreement to purchase a physical commodity on a specified delivery date for a given price when the option expires. If you are "short" you are the one selling and the one buying holds the "long" position. This is a different meaning that that of stocks. The seller, for obvious reasons, is expected to possess the physical commodity. When the option expires and assuming the buyer has not offset the option (most are offset) then the seller is legally obligated to provide the commodity by the delivery date. The buyer must pay the remainder of the option and contact the warehouse for delivery instructions. It's a perfectly valid way to purchase the physical metal and and a low premium. However most don't do this simply because the minimum gold contract is for 100 ounces and for silver either 1000 or 5000 ounces. i.e. it's out of most people's league. </p><p><br /></p><p>(Some time ago a friend of mine who like to play the futures market lost track of a potato future(s) that he had purchased. He was quite surprised when he got a call from a guy with a train load of potatoes who wanted to know where they should go.)</p><p><br /></p><p>A naked short is when the seller does not possess the physical commodity. Since most options are offset (settled for case before the option expires) then they get away with it. However if a large buyer demands the physical silver or gold then the seller can offer to buy them out for a significant premium over the going price. This is where the 130% that I mentioned above comes from. Of course you have to have the financing and balls of steel to play this game because as you mentioned, they could actually call your bluff and provide the metal. It's a great game for an organization for say, a bank, which has unlimited access to fiat but not much physical to back up the position.</p><p><br /></p><p>The accusation being made by the OP is the banks will sell a ton of naked shorts near the silver options expiration date which can drive the price down a great deal. What this does is fleece all the longs who bought for higher prices. On the other hand, the big longs can ask for delivery and the banks either have to come up with the metal or do a payout. As I said its high stakes gambling stacked in favor of the banks so only very few can win at this game. </p><p><br /></p><p>While most silver bullion buyers here, I suspect, are not involved with this activity, the price they are paying for silver comes from this activity. it's why they should understand what they are getting themselves into when they are purchasing silver for investment purposes. (And also to a lesser extent, gold)[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="fatima, post: 1317411, member: 22143"]I don't understand what you are saying. My understanding is this. GLD & SLV are totally different than the CME. I agree with you on GLD and SLV. There is no claim on the physical asset via shorting or other means. (though there might be an exception to this) However at the CME a futures "option" for a physical commodity is an agreement to purchase a physical commodity on a specified delivery date for a given price when the option expires. If you are "short" you are the one selling and the one buying holds the "long" position. This is a different meaning that that of stocks. The seller, for obvious reasons, is expected to possess the physical commodity. When the option expires and assuming the buyer has not offset the option (most are offset) then the seller is legally obligated to provide the commodity by the delivery date. The buyer must pay the remainder of the option and contact the warehouse for delivery instructions. It's a perfectly valid way to purchase the physical metal and and a low premium. However most don't do this simply because the minimum gold contract is for 100 ounces and for silver either 1000 or 5000 ounces. i.e. it's out of most people's league. (Some time ago a friend of mine who like to play the futures market lost track of a potato future(s) that he had purchased. He was quite surprised when he got a call from a guy with a train load of potatoes who wanted to know where they should go.) A naked short is when the seller does not possess the physical commodity. Since most options are offset (settled for case before the option expires) then they get away with it. However if a large buyer demands the physical silver or gold then the seller can offer to buy them out for a significant premium over the going price. This is where the 130% that I mentioned above comes from. Of course you have to have the financing and balls of steel to play this game because as you mentioned, they could actually call your bluff and provide the metal. It's a great game for an organization for say, a bank, which has unlimited access to fiat but not much physical to back up the position. The accusation being made by the OP is the banks will sell a ton of naked shorts near the silver options expiration date which can drive the price down a great deal. What this does is fleece all the longs who bought for higher prices. On the other hand, the big longs can ask for delivery and the banks either have to come up with the metal or do a payout. As I said its high stakes gambling stacked in favor of the banks so only very few can win at this game. While most silver bullion buyers here, I suspect, are not involved with this activity, the price they are paying for silver comes from this activity. it's why they should understand what they are getting themselves into when they are purchasing silver for investment purposes. (And also to a lesser extent, gold)[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Bullion Investing
>
J.P. Morgan is short more paper silver than physically exists in the world?
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...