Is JP Morgan the Reason for Crazy Silver Prices?

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by fretboard, Jun 28, 2020.

  1. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    JP Morgan has been buying up silver faster than one could ask, "is this a scam?" They have already faced civil litigation about their scheme which looks similar to what the Hunt Brothers tried in the 1980's. That said, I don't know much about PM's at all other than I'd like to make a profit off of them! :D The below quoted information was taken off of the internet. So actually, JP Morgan has been hoarding gold and silver for quite awhile! :singing: Any of you stock market people know how JP Morgan has affected the price of silver? I don't even understand how one company could amass such a large stockpile. You would think after the Hunt Brothers tried their scam, nobody else would be allowed to do it, guess I'm wrong! Any comments or corrections?


    https://www.metalsedge.com/News/why-is-jp-morgan-hoarding-silver

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/31/pro...nto-metals-market-manipulation-continues.html


    "They now hold an estimated 25 Million ounces of gold and around 1 Billion ounces of silver. The impressive part of all this is, they did it all while under investigation by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) and the US Department of Justice."
     
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  3. Nolan Workman

    Nolan Workman Well-Known Member

    In the '70's I met the comptroller of Bakersfield, Ca. grey hair, three piece suit, pocket watch and each month he'd drive into Nevada to the first casino and buy silver dollars; stacked them in safe deposit boxes. Everyone thought him crazy; when the Hunt's made there run, he sold at $42.
     
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  4. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    Yep, unfortunately in the early 1970's I spent a ton of silver coins in those slot machines. I can only blame it on the stiff drinks! :happy: I kick my butt every time I think about it! :banghead:
     
    Stevearino likes this.
  5. desertgem

    desertgem MODERATOR Senior Errer Collecktor Moderator

    If you read the story in a history book , the Hunts had the rules changed on them near the end of the game ( IMO). They were among the richest in the US/World and if they believed in something , they went all-in. There was no laws or regulations on what the Hunts did until the commodity exchanges and politicians pushed by the major metal exchanges changed the laws.
    What the Hunts did was to buy a huge number of silver contracts, and instead or taking the cash as silver went up, demanded delivery( as was OK then) the exchanges give them their silver instead of cash. Repeat, Repeat, ....over and over and they were estimated to have accumulated ( with Saudi partners ) over 3/4 of the silver supply outside of governments. The commodities couldn't keep doing this so with the help of the US gov in response, set a limit of 3 million ounces and would not allow contracts to buy, but only to sell And only sell to commodity related firms....so everybody including the Hunts, who had silver over than amount had to dump to the exchange and take what ever price they could grab as it crashed. It's hard to feel bad about it, but I hate it when authority changes the rules in the middle of the game. I remember also that having Saudi partners caused a bad stir then. Could it happen again? How much do you trust any Government in relation to Big Business concerns if they need the income?

    The commodities or exchanges could (IMO) easily move prices up or down, but current rules do not allow it. The levels have been changed over the years since 1980, but unless you read the Prospectus of the company, it isn't readily visible.

    (As best I remember it :) ) Jim
     
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  6. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    If you just buy physical, not much can be done. It's just the futures where trouble happens. It is supply/demand, and cost of mining/refining. Same as bitcoin.
    If you don't think the prices of equities (stocks) are manipulated (even more so), you don't understand how greed makes the world go round.
     
    fretboard likes this.
  7. Nolan Workman

    Nolan Workman Well-Known Member

    Russia and China are amassing huge stocks of metals; it is possible, one morning, a cup of Starbucks coffee will cost a half ounce of silver. No paper.
     
  8. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    With JP Morgan holding more than half of all the silver in the USA doesn't that make all the hype fake? Why are so many people falling over themselves to buy silver? :D I mean it seems ridiculous to pay $5 to $10 over spot for a profit that may not happen at all! At least with gold, the price is going higher as we speak! :singing:
     
  9. Nolan Workman

    Nolan Workman Well-Known Member

    Demand is driving the premiums. My coin dealer's premium is usually around 6% for silver, now it is 35% and you have to check on that number daily.
     
  10. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Folks....JP Morgan Chase is acting like a CLEARING AGENT for ETFs, ETNs, mutual fund families, hedge funds, CEFs, etc.

    They are doing very little, if any, actual speculating on silver.
     
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  11. Nolan Workman

    Nolan Workman Well-Known Member

    They are making million ounce buys every few days in anticipation of a crash. They are telling customers they can no longer store cash or bullion in their safe deposit boxes for some reason. Like Samuel L. Jackson said in Jurassic Park, "Hold onto your butts".
     
  12. desertgem

    desertgem MODERATOR Senior Errer Collecktor Moderator

    JP Morgan does hold a lot of silver. The problem would be to determine how much is theirs and how much belongs to customers through active accounts. Trades can be set up for delivery to customer at the end of a specific date for a specific amount, it could be for for convertible paper trades and as said by Goldfinger , many other customers who use them as a storage deposit for their silver deals. Even the government has a hard time keeping track or such even if they desire to do so. IMO, Jim
     
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  13. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Source ?

    They are buying on behalf of others. JP Morgan Chase has tangible equity capital of approximately $200 billion.

    A million ounces every few days is about $30 MM a week or maybe $1.5 Billion over a year.

    So.....they're allegedly speculating with about 1% of their capital ? This is the big wager you want us to believe ?
     
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  14. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    NONE of it is theirs !!

    Do some of you understand banking at all ? :D Do you think Jamie Dimon and the head guys are speculating with the bank's precious capital on silver or other PMs ?

    We just had the Federal Reserve "Stress Test" also known as the CCAR:

    https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/bcreg20200609a.htm

    Do some DD next time, fellas (not talking about you, DesertGem) .....:D
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  15. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Why would they be going LONG in anticipation of a CRASH ?
     
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  16. desertgem

    desertgem MODERATOR Senior Errer Collecktor Moderator

    Nonsense, if I had a wrong idea, I certainly want to know. But no, I do not think they are speculating at all, and apologize if my wording was wrong. Now if someone thinks about the bullion houses and newsletter misrepresenting to drive up sales, is to save us from bullion prices, that is a different matter. Jim
     
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  17. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    There's all this conspiracy talk I am always seeing/reading about and if people would just take the time to do 5 minutes of DD and recognize the difference between acting as an agent and acting on behalf of your own capital position.....:D

    Plus, the Fed and bank regulators watch these banks like a hawk. Sheila Blair, ex-FDIC, is saying the banks should KO dividends (they did that with share repurchases) during the C-19 lockdown. Does anybody think the banks would be discussing cutting back or eliminating dividends...at the same time they are SPECULATING on silver and other highly-volatile precious metals ?

    The CEO would have Jerome Powell on his ass in no time. :D
     
  18. Nolan Workman

    Nolan Workman Well-Known Member

    "Gold is money. Everything else is credit." J.P. Morgan. 1912. I don't believe they are speculating with the silver, but holding for what's next. China just announce a "new" swine flu mutation, not Covid. Boston, MA is getting ready for mass evictions as the grace period has run. I believe the Feds bag of pixie dust is just about gone. I live in Arizona, all that was opened is now closed. Three EMS visits to the park today will focus one.
     
  19. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    Yes, I'm in California and we had a 45% increase in Covid infections. Probably all the protesting, who knows!
     
  20. Nolan Workman

    Nolan Workman Well-Known Member

    AZ governor threw open the bars, young folk packed them in Old Town Scottsdale and ASU Tempe and the virus numbers exploded in the 22 to 35 year old, all closed again. Looks like bars and beaches in Cali. I have a cousin in San Pedro, medical issues and haven't heard from him in two weeks, quite worried actually. Be safe and like the illustrious leader says, "We'll see what happens."
     
  21. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    What does this have to do with a bank with $200 billion in tangible equity capital buying a few million ounces of silver at $20 and less ?

    That is like a millionaire preparing for hard times by looking for loose change in his couch.
     
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