Is anybody still buying silver and gold?

If you can do enough volume to make the shipping costs worthwhile, quite a few places have ASEs for <$3 over spot.

 

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all the more reason to counterfeit an ASE.

 

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

But, one last try...

The dimensions (diameter, thickness, weight) of the ASE are well-known and easy to look up. If you measure these three parameters accurately enough - you can be certain that what you have is silver. If someone went through the pains of replicating the beautiful design, but the weight, thickness and diameter check out - they at least made the fake out of pure silver. Not very likely - and, who cares? It's still silver, right?

The bullion bars, on the other hand, lack a 'simple' shape. They aren't really rectangles (because of those rounded corners - an area that a counterfeiter could 'shave' some weight from a material heavier than silver, or 'add' weight in the case of a material lighter than silver). Plus, I'm not sure if there is a 'standard/universal' size for them? Are the APMEX bars the exact same dimensions as the Sunshine Mint bars? Down to 0.01mm? All they have going for them (as far as verification goes) is their weight - which is all DW-Coins was saying (I think).

I'm not 'for' or 'against' bullion bars. In fact, I'm definitely going to buy some. I'm just trying to clear up what seemed like a simple concept.

DW-Coins - am I correct in my assumption(s) about your post(s)?

If so, am the only (other) one who 'gets' this?

 

by the same token, why wouldn't a maple be just as safe?

 

not necessarily. who's to say it's pure silver just because it weighs right. how close will you examine each eagle in a monster box?

 

Same here, I buy the 90% halves for $12.50. I don't think it's too bad of a price, it is 25x face, which seems to be the norm for 90% silver right now.

 

Fyi just because dimensions match doesn't mean it is not a fake recent Chinese fake coins (using copper-tin alloy?) have dimensions and weight measurement very similar to the real deal we already seen that with fake silver pandas that are hitting the bay.

 

there have been fake silver morgans already also.

 

No one would say that it's silver just because it weighs correctly. But if it has the correct weight AND diameter and thickness - then it has to be silver. It's called 'specific gravity.' Every substance has a specific gravity (mass per unit volume). As an aside, the reason GOLD coins are so hard to fake is because gold is so freakishly heavy. The only thing close is tungsten - but it's too hard and has the wrong color.

Not saying it couldn't happen, but I would be interested to see a fake silver coin (ASE for example) using an alloy that exactly matches the specific gravity of silver. Meaning - it has the EXACT same dimensions. Can someone post a link to one?

 

Yeah - I've seen these. They're pretty cool actually. But they're always either too thin or thick (read: wrong dimensions) and they stick to a magnet (because they're made of steel - at least the ones I've seen).

 

Can you post a link to the copper-tin-alloy fakes with the EXACT correct dimensions? I would seriously interested in seeing that. I might even buy one for reference if they have something other than Pandas.

 

Yes. Now you've got it!

 

You may want to read the discussion here and there is plenty more in youtube.

 

maples are cheaper than ASE's and not much more than ounce bullion.

 

Indeed. You should be able to simply look at a copper tin alloy (which is bronze BTW) without even measuring it, because it won't be the right color.

 

unless they silver plate it.

 

It looks like the counterfeiters are getting closer, but 'German Silver' still weighs considerably less than silver. You can't mix three different substances - all lighter than silver - and expect to get the weight right. If you read down further in the linked thread, the 'German silver' bars are slightly thicker (to make up for the lower specific gravity). I would think that adding lead would help - since it's heavier and cheaper than silver.

Here's a pic of what I'm talking about. The coin on the left is made from something like 'German Silver' (read: a material lighter than silver). The coin on the right is real. Notice anything?

 

AND the modern ones are .9999 pure and say so on the coin. Also - because of their purity, they are eligible for IRAs (no - I don't have a PM IRA, but I'm just saying). AGEs are also eligible for IRA, but only because they're American - their purity (or lack thereof) would have ordinarily disqualified them.

IMHO - the Maples are indeed a better deal for a pure bullion (non-numismatic) standpoint. I checked APMEX, and the price for 1oz Maples is only $54.99 over spot as compared to $84.99 over spot for the 1oz AGE. The only other 'bullion' coins I would consider are the Krugerrands. Same purity (and exact same dimensions) as AGE, and they list the gold content on the coin in English, and are recognized all over the world. Can't use them in your IRA, but - like I said - I don't do that.

I used to hunt British Sovereigns, but have since realized that it might not be the best bullion play for me. I'm going to sell them and buy either bars, AGEs, Maples, or Krugerrands.

 

I just realized I was mixing up Gold and Silver! What I said about the gold bullion coins is valid - just not applicable here. Sorry!

 

That panda is not German silver no one knows what it was made if but it matched specs exactly. it is likely tin-lead with silver plate but it can be detected using magnetic slide or acid test. FYI if you go to certain Chinese site which I won't link you can get fake bars/ jewelry items that look like pure silver but at 1/3 silver spot price and will pass all tests I mentioned. You can take a guess on what they did hint it involves lead core.