Investing in Gold & Silver from U.S. Mint?

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by Wandering Man, Sep 17, 2019.

  1. Brian Calvert

    Brian Calvert Active Member

    Yes, whatever the change over is at the time is how you make money. But, if you put 1500.00 in the bank today or buy one ounce, then gold goes to xxxxxx. At that time you still only have the 1500.00 in the bank and the GOLDS new value is paid in cash. To be honest the Central banks want to do away with Paper. They want it electronic so they can track it all, squeeze the people and control them via finance. That is probably what will happen with time. GOLD and Silver is best to say, are the only real value holders in a fiat. Land and tangible assets are the others.
     
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  3. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    If GOLD is the "standard of value", this simply means that the dollar is holding its value better than those other currencies. I thought that was supposed to be a good thing?
     
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  4. desertgem

    desertgem MODERATOR Senior Errer Collecktor Moderator

    You can find hundreds if not thousands of you tubes, internet blogs, emails from bullion dealers, all telling the gullible that gold will be worth everything when the dollar crashes. Again I ask , then why in the world would they offer it to us for that dirty old cash at any cost since they know it will be worthless soon??and they will have barrels of cash where they once had gold! Seems kind of dumb doesn't it?

    Who sets the price of Gold ? Supply and demand? Well in a way .
    ( from Wikipedia, but just search gold fix)

    "The London Gold Fixing (or Gold Fix)[1] is the setting of the price of gold that takes place via a dedicated conference line. It was formerly held on the premises of Nathan Mayer Rothschild & Sons by the members of The London Gold Market Fixing Ltd.


    The benchmark is determined twice each business day of the London bullion market (the exceptions to this being Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve when there is only one fixing in the morning). It is designed to fix a price for settling contracts between members of the London bullion market, but the gold fixing informally provides a recognized rate that is used as a benchmark for pricing the majority of gold products and derivatives throughout the world's markets. The gold fix is conducted in the United States dollar (USD), the Pound sterling (GBP), and the Euro (EUR) daily at 10:30AM and 3PM, London time.


    The current participants in the fixing are Barclays, the Bank of China, Bank of Communications, Goldman Sachs, HSBC Bank USA, JPMorgan Chase, Morgan Stanley, Société Générale, Standard Chartered, ScotiaMocatta (Scotiabank), the Toronto-Dominion Bank, and UBS
    .[2]

    The Rothchilds? Think they have normal citizens in mind? and it is used for contracts between their own members not us regular people. Oh they do provide an informal fixing for the rest of us, but be assured it is not the fix price they use.

    SO , who do you think is winning when gold goes up? Do you think the big gold bug dealers use the little people's fix cost when they buy to resell to us? It can be wiggled any direction they want, it has little to do with value, just demand, which they and bullion dealers can control. Well who looks out for us at fixing time??? Look at who make the decision above, the participant list includes all of the banks and money decision makers....Some which are mentioned regularly by metal hoarders as being extremely horrible, yet you may be letting them use you. I have some metals. I think they are pretty, and easy to melt down for jewelry fabrication, but if a horrid disaster occurs a tube of antibiotic ointment or necessary medications such as insulin or acyclovir, will be worth every ounce you have.

    IMO only , Jim
     
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  5. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    No, it's because the "manipulation" you speak of is irrelevant. Central Bank buying and selling dwarfs andy so-called "manipulation" by JPM.

    If JPM was so powerful, they wouldn't have had their stock price go down 75% in 2008-09.

    You posted alot of interesting factoids in your piece, but unless gold is poised to go on a multi-year tear, it's simply not worthy of investment capital (as opposed to speculative capital).

    FWIW, I do buy gold and gold coins periodically but it is NOT based on gold going to $3,500 by 2025.:D
     
  6. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    You have apparently never taken a course in monetary economics.

    If you never studied cardiology, you wouldn't opine on angioplasty, so why are you trying to come off as an expert in monetary policy ?

    It took 30 years for a Socialist Greek government to implode the economy.

    The reason there was a media coverup of the Greek currency failure is because....there WAS NO Greek currency. They use the Euro. :D

    This is disjointed rattling of unrelated incidences. You may as well have thrown out missed balls and strikes in baseball and refs blowing plays in the NFL.:D

    (1) The Repo rate soared to 10% because of technical conditions related to tax payments and end-of-quarter pressures. It had NOTHING to do with stressed balance sheets.

    (2) China, Russia, and Iran do not have fully-functioning and fully-convertible capital markets so they can never become the Reserve Currency and hence their agita and love for gold.

    BIS is owned by the CB's not the other way around.

    This is a personal responsibility issue, not a national debt or economy issue.

    Why don't they tell us how their portfolios have done the last 3, 5, and 10 years ? You know, like Fidelity does. :D

    The dollar is strong, meaning that gold is EXPENSIVE in other currencies so I am not sure your premise is correct.

    Even if it is, so what ? Gold is priced in dollars, not Swiss Francs. :D
     
  7. slackaction1

    slackaction1 Well-Known Member

    Wow You guys are so far ahead of me I never catch up. I read the last two pages (twice) and I am out of my league here.. interesting read... but no comprende carry on..
     
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  8. desertgem

    desertgem MODERATOR Senior Errer Collecktor Moderator

    The short version is the extremely rich gets richer at the expense of the least knowledgeable, who may luck out at time and have their holdings increase, but it usually doesn't do much for them because they very seldom sell at a profitable point. Always waiting for "the moon trip".

    People love conspiracy stories as they use it as an excuse for their financial or other downfall, and others use it to get their money by fabricating scenarios where they win with their 'hoard' by being so aware of situations others aren't.

    If the London group fixes the price of gold $ 10 higher for non-members 3 days in a row, they will earn millions from them while not risking anything as they literally agree on what the price can be ( best for them , not for us). The big bullion groups will not tell you how much they actually pay for their gold or what their margin happens to be.

    But it does shine. IMO Jim
     
  9. Brian Calvert

    Brian Calvert Active Member

    All of your OPINIONS are nothing more than the corrupt view that the Central Bankers what the dotard to think and believe. There is mass corruption going on and it isnt "PERSONAL Responsibility" issues ! That is part of the neoconservative angle to keep everything the way it goes.

    If true, than the 95% of the country going backwards, or losing to the top 1% all have ISSUES. Let it be known too that the 50+ right wing neoconservative think tanks pay many to troll sites like this one and write everything that you did. It supports their mass greed. The first shot is too ALWAYS under mind the other persons education. CHECK mark on that one. Then offer an alternate view of utopia is surrounding you and if you are failing, or mention that the banks are corrupt, it is a YOU problem. check, check, you checked all the boxes. Thus, if you did not take an advanced degree course in economics in the 80s, you have not a clue what you are talking about. Most of the SHILLER type economist that are not on the payroll, like a Larry Summers are telling the truth. We are headed for a collapse. The Market is priced higher than 1929 and 2001. It is not Priced that high because all of America is doing great. Only the rich are doing great.

    Greece fell apart for several reason, but mostly because they borrowed from the EURO what they could not afford to pay back. The euro's knew this, so did the greek and they still did it. THE CENTRAL Banks are a PONZI scheme, nothing more.

    People could be starving in the streets and unemployment can be at 2% if everyone makes 10$/hr and a loaf of bread cost 20. As with 2008, and 2002 all the economist on the payroll, the FED, and those benefiting pay millions to debunk the truth. Then when it hits they disappear. There is no doubt it is coming. Many of us have made money both in the market and metals, that is how you prepare. For those that think what has supported this country from the mid 30s until the mid 80s is still the same is sadly mistaken.

    Believe what you want, but for all the rest of the people it is not FAIR for people to come a site and pretend their situation SHOULD BE everyone else's. If YOU have done well, that is great, but you cant hold all other Americans to your standard and also PRETEND the FED is an HONEST entity. They have been rigging the system since the MID 80s at the latest to help only the rich. The income inequality is staring everyone in the face and NO, it isnt a personal problem, it is a country problem.

    The people with the money like you and I will have to bail it all out. That is why the FED, and Politicians made the changes that a BAIL IN happens next time, not a bail out.
     
  10. Brian Calvert

    Brian Calvert Active Member

    you mean like the 2010 -55% , 2012 - 30% and so on like Fidelity ? Or do you only want to do today because it fits the agenda of neocon ? Everyone is not a fool.
     
  11. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    All I am saying is that their "predictions" have to be profitable for people like us. Let's see their track record.

    I see very few billionaires on the Forbes 400 who made their money by buying PMs.
     
  12. Brian Calvert

    Brian Calvert Active Member


    That is exactly what they want. I am not a writer or a speaker and took very few economic classes. Not part of engineering. The Numbers are, honesty is, and the street teaches you common sense.

    The RIGHT and the RICH want you to keep doing what you do. Borrowing at 10% while they get it at 1% and lend it too you. When you fail and need a car, no worries, they have subprime auto loans now for those that are unfortunate. Remember they shut down the payday loan scams ? Well, the right wing love them, they make money for the scammer type. Now 8 Billion in loans are out there with rate of over 120%.

    Of course to GOLDFINGER1969 this is a PERSONAL issue, dumb people making dumb mistake ! That is exactly what it is. But, our country should not allow it, just like our country should not allow drug commercials, we are the only country that does that. It is legalized corruption thru the lobbyist mafia. How many hundred of thousands of Lobbyists (Payoff, Bribe, and leverage politicians) are in Washington ? Registered Lobbyist comapnys is 11K + 281 have worked in this admin. (todays Whitehouse). And there are hundreds of thousands employed thru the network.

    This is legalized corruption and now that total deregulation has happened, they do what they want. I think we should hold each American responsible for their actions too. A job, work hard, save... oh wait, you cant save, the interest rate on savings is 1% and soon to be -.50 that way, your savings account is widdled away by a billionaire.

    Many people just stick their heads in the sand, it is easier and I cant blame them. but be prepared. What really sucks is those that lie, twist, propaganda, and manipulate for the establishment. But even worse than that is the GUY who has done well and beat the system, thus expects everyone else to have done it too. If they didn't, they are a failure to this type of guy. Or even worse, he made his money years ago when the regulations worked for all people and he has no educated himself to todays laws and deregulation thus is lost to the setup of stealing happening everyday thru the banking system.

    No one can save when your 401K fees avg. 5% of your gains and a savings account earns 1% because REAL inflation is cruising along at between 5-7% YoY. You would never know it because the FED (a private bank) who controls the output of CPI has changed the criteria. All rigged, all the time. Everyone needs to wake up
     
  13. Brian Calvert

    Brian Calvert Active Member

    Of course they havent, the PM system has Been Rigged since the mid 80s. JP Morgan is in court for it right now. They continuously short Future contracts to lower, keep the price down. That is the game that forces investors into the market.
     
  14. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Necons have little to say on monetary policy, they are largely foreign policy afficionados.

    Do you know what a P/E ratio is ? Check out the P/E ratio for the S&P 500 and compare it to 1929 or 2000 (not 2001, you either mistyped or don't remember when the market peaked).

    Again, you are showing that you don't understand basic facts and monetary economics.

    Greece didn't "borrow from the Euro"....Greece is PART of the Euro EU community. And the Euro cut their borrowing costs for YEARS...they simply didn't get their house in order before 2010.

    Not being the same doesn't equate to about to fall apart.

    We had a near-systemic collapse in 2008 and the market still "only" fell 57% peak-to-trough.

    Are you willing to have YOUR money taken away on a global basis ? You are clearly a beneficiary of extreme wealth compared to other people in Bangladesh, Sub-Sahara Africa, etc.

    Income inequality is relative. If you have $100,000 in assets and Warren Buffet has $20 billion, he is worth 200,000x as much as you.

    If you have $1 MM and he has $1 trillion, he is worth 1 MMx as much as you.

    Which is better for you ?

    There was no "bailout" of the system in 2008, except for some small banks and the UAW.
     
  15. Brian Calvert

    Brian Calvert Active Member

    How about this, Bill Gates the richest man in the world knows he has too much money and should be taxed accordingly. Yet, when I bought a computer in the early 2000s I bought word, exel, etc. and was told I owned it and would receive the updates.

    NOW I have to pay every year or so for that at 120 a year for the rest of my life ? It is absurd and it is the little things like this that get added yearly to the Median Income of 33k a year. HALF of the people in this country make that or less. As everything increase 5% per year, YoY wages went know where. It is like Americans are totally blind to it and today, like in 1990 (30 years ago) 70K a year is GOOD MONEY. Good money vs the inflation we have REALLY seen would be that x 1.5X
     
  16. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Do you know who they short it for ?

    People like me who act on behalf of their clients !!

    What is wrong with shorting futures ? You are free to go long, they can't go short ?

    I think what you are saying is that SELL orders should be outlawed.:D
     
  17. Brian Calvert

    Brian Calvert Active Member

    This is NOT true and I have no idea where you get your information from ? Breitbart ? They acknowledge on 800M of it but actually over 17T when into the banks. All the real information is out there.
     
  18. Brian Calvert

    Brian Calvert Active Member

    There should be a law against it because they could NEVER ever cover the amount of GOLD they short in those contracts if the contracts need fulfilled.

    But now I know what you do, if it is ef hutton, Raymond James, Edward Jones, or a bank. I get why you have that angle.... BUY BUY BUY more falling in EPS stocks because up up up.... that is what makes money for the broker. See, I have no agenda, thus no angle.
     
  19. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Maybe you should take some more economic courses ? :D

    Where did you get this from ? Who is borrowing at 10%, besides a CCC-rated junk/high-yield company like WeWork ?

    Most consumer loans are at 6%. Mortgages are 4.5% or less.

    Right-wing politicians own Payday loan outfits ? I didn't know that.

    Too bad except for the publicly traded outfit these pawn shops and payday lenders are individually owned.

    Who said anything about dumb people making mistakes ? Except....well.....:D

    Drug advertising is strictly regulated. For decades it was prohibited. Apparently you think that all companies except pharmaceutical companies should be allowed to advertise.

    That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. But the fact that it is allowed has nothing to do with corruption or lobbying just like a ban on said advertising (like cigarettes, 1971) does not mean the 1st Amendment has been repealed.

    It's "corruption" to you because you keep taking disjointed, irrelevant, unrelated data points and trying to draw them together in some Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory. :D

    We live in a free-market capitalist economy. Accept it.


    More nonsense....401(K) fees do not "average" 5% and if they were "5% of the gains" that would mean on average about 40-50 basis points (100 basis points = 1%) which is very reasonable to manage money.

    I manage money for F&F and charge 1%, total inclusive. When I worked for companies we charged anywhere from 12 bp. to 150 bp. (1.5%).
     
  20. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Sorry, that information is NOT out there. You simply have been TOLD it is "out there" and relied on others to do your DD instead of doing it yourself.

    The TARP program released approximately $750 BB into the system. The vast amount was taken by large money center ("Wall Street") banks, who repaid the money within 6 months to 2 years. The U.S. Treasury made money on these liquidity lifelines via interest and equity warrants. This is what a central bank -- The Fed -- is supposed to do during times of ""panic" so we don't have panics like 1873, 1907, etc.

    No banks were "bailed out." All equity holders suffered dilution, from JP Morgan Chase (<5%) to Citibank (>85%). I dare you to tell a Citibank shareholder from 2007 that they were "bailed out" by TARP with the stock price down over 80% from the 2007 levels because of all the dilution.

    Some small banks (Maxine Waters !!:D ) were bailed out. And the United Auto Workers (UAW) and AFL-CIO were bailed out because their pension and OPEB funds should have been compensated at 15-20 cents on the dollar along with other unsecured creditors but because they control large blocs of voters in Michigan and other states, they were given 80-90 cents on the dollar. So yes, a certain special interest was "bailed out"...and the political establisment and media elite approved every step of the way.:D

    There was no $17 TT injected into banks. That's double and triple counting. Like me borrowing $1,000 from a bank for 1 year...paying interest daily....and then saying I borrowed $365,000. No, I borrowed $1,000 for 1 year not $1,000 every day for 365 days.

    The greatest problem we have in this country is people who do NOT do proper DD on matters of finance, economics, politics, etc....they will spend weeks researching a HDTV but make 401(k) decisions based on a 30-second news report.
     
  21. Brian Calvert

    Brian Calvert Active Member

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