Investing in Gold & Silver from U.S. Mint?

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by Wandering Man, Sep 17, 2019.

  1. Wandering Man

    Wandering Man Member

    Buying the latest silver coins from the U.S. mint is tempting. But I'm not sure whether these coins grow in value and are worth the money.

    Is buying the gold and silver dollars and commemoratives (Ha! As if I could afford Gold) from the U.S. mint a good investment?

    What about buying these coins from another company as graded and certified coins? Do these slabbed coins add value that will grow?

    And finally what about the ones that have been graded and signed by a former director of the mint? Does that add enough value to warrant a doubling of the price?

    Well, since I brought up gold, what about the smaller gold coins? Do they grow in value, too?

    I keep going back and forth between buying the coins and buying 1 oz silver bars.

    So many questions, I know. But that's what's been buzzing around in my head.
     
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  3. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    Buying from the US mint is a romance purchase. We often say here that bullion is bullion whether it is graded or not. I purchase a fair amount of US mint silver eagles and gold bullion. I always buy on the secondary market because I don't want to pay the US mint overhead. I buy mostly raw bullion but do have some graded bullion coins that I paid spot price for on the secondary market. Your value rises and lowers in direct correlation to the spot silver/gold markets, not in relationship to their being graded or not. There are a few exceptions but not many. Slabbed bullion coins have been popularized by the TV coin guys. They are the only folks making money off graded bullion.
     
  4. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    If you want to buy gold and silver, buy American Gold Eagles and American Silver Eagles. You can’t buy those directly from the Mint; you have to go through precious metals dealers.

    Don’t get them graded. And don’t buy proofs.
     
  5. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Well-Known Member

    If you want to buy silver/ gold/ platinum / palladium coins from the MINT then be aware that:
    1 - some people will try to flip them nearly immediately after they are released to the unsuspecting public. Including adding signatures, extravagant TV & website spiels, fancy labels etc all that only adding a "selling cost" to the coin, and not actually raising the value of the coin.
    2 - most will depreciate in value. Very few will actually appreciate in value (excluding any precious metal spot price, etc).

    You can easily check this out.
    Pick out your favorite PAST Silver or Gold coin, or any other set or whatever.
    Search/Determine its Original US MINT sale price.
    Then go check eBay for it's current SOLD prices.
    You can even checked the Slabbed versions as long as you add premium correlated to the TPG.

    More often than not, it's a loss.
    When you buy from the US MINT you are paying the overhead costs of design, engineering, manufacturing, etc of the coin itself. It's like a new car when you drive it off the sales lot. There are a few exceptions of course ... which you find out later on. People buy from the Mint because they like the new car smell.

    Upon selling, retail places may only give the spot value of PM based coins.
    This is minus any numismatic costs,
    minus any slabbing costs,
    minus and advertising costs,
    minus and other costs that one has paid and has to eat upon the sale.

    To get back the cost of buying a specially signed slabbed PM coin, you have to find someone that really, really, really wants that persons signature on that particular slabbed coin. In other words .. nope as those are really "emotional" purchases and not "investment" purchases.
     
  6. Wandering Man

    Wandering Man Member

    So, buying bullion coins is better than buying the Proofs with all of the packaging, etc?

    And there are places where you can buy bullion coins at spot, rather than Spot +? How does that happen? I've looked at APMEX, and there is always an added cost to their bullion coins, or bullion anything.

    And, finally, the Proofs coming out of the mint do not really appreciate in value collectables?

    I think my head is swimming ...
     
  7. tommyc03

    tommyc03 Senior Member

    That your head is swimming is understandable. I put it more simply. Buying anything from the Mint is not an investment, it's merely a collectible that is usually over priced to begin with. Only in rare circumstances, like a low mintage item does anything from the Mint go up in price. For example, I just paid $19.95 for the 2019 annual Mint uncirculated set, complete with the special extra cent from ebay with free shipping. So buying after market is usually the best way to go. Yes, buying bullion is cheaper. Those proof commemoratives are way over priced at the Mint. And they become even more expensive once they are placed in a plastic slab. Yes, you can buy at spot if you are at the right place at the right time. And yes, if you buy from Apmex you will pay over spot as they need to make a profit also. And few of the Proofs coming from the Mint rarely appreciate in value.
     
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  8. Wandering Man

    Wandering Man Member

    Okay. I've got to quit associating investment from collecting in my head. I've not been impressed with growth in the price of silver and gold, until the recent uptick.

    I thought maybe collectibles might be a better way to go, but maybe not.

    Please understand. This is not about me trying to find a "get rich quick" scheme.

    I do understand the intrinsic value of collecting coins. I'm now weaning myself away from collecting fountain pens. I justified fountain pens because I could use them. But now I have too many to use in a reasonable amount of time.

    I enjoy looking at the coins, but hoped I could justify those to my wife since they had the potential to grow in value.
     
    Randy Abercrombie likes this.
  9. tommyc03

    tommyc03 Senior Member

    @Wandering Man It's funny how life works. Being at the right place at the right, or era makes a huge difference in any collectible endeavor. I started nearly all my collectibles back in 1966. Coins, stamps, comic books, vinyl, and bottles. I never bought those comics with any intention of selling them or making a profit from them. But now I am sitting on a nice pile of money because of them. Stamps, with the exception of the earliest issues was a flop. My vinyl collection is worth some decent money. But then I also got into silver plate at the wrong time and the market for that is nearly non existent. The lunchbox I took to grade school is worth $600.00, who would have thought. I stack silver myself but an willing to sit on it until and if and when it hits $30.00 an ounce or more. Buy low and save for the future high to sell if it comes along. Coins are a hobby I enjoy just for what they are. My ex wife never understood any of my collecting habits, many wives will never understand it. Certain coins will always have the potential to grow in value but they are not the ones currently being made. At least not in my lifetime. Pick a series, buy the best condition you can afford and a series you like and just roll with it. Knowledge is the key to succeeding. Make sure you have a Redbook Guide to U.S. coins, study up on it. See if you can find a copy perhaps 10 years old or more and compare the different series and see how they progressed. Most of all, just have fun with it.
     
  10. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    You won't make money with the high prices they charge.
     
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  11. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    No kidding! I decided in the mid 1970’s I would be a rock star and bought the only bass guitar I could afford. A Hofner Beatle bass. It was so cheap feeling. Happiest day of my life was being able to sell it and afford a real bass...... Now if I had the thing back it would be worth thousands.
     
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  12. tommyc03

    tommyc03 Senior Member

    BTW Randy, that lunch box was Fireball XL-5, the Gerry Anderson space cartoon. Still like new with thermos. I also have my first teddy bear given me by my Dad's boss when I was born. It came from FAO Schwartz in NYC. It only needs new eyes. Wonder if I ate them? We baby boomers saved everything it seems.
     
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  13. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Well-Known Member

    The problem with Bullion coins is this:
    The more "in a hurry" you are to sell, the closer to spot (or less) you'll get for it.
    The less knowledgeable you are, the more you'll pay a premium.

    (stereotypically)
    • Retail Shops will normal try to get spot (or less) for ANY bullion .. circulated, uncirculated, PROOF .. whether low or high mintage, etc.
    • People that Flip bullion coins for Profit are also in the same category as Retail Shops but may recognize and pay a bit more for a low mintage/higher demand coin (higher profit for them).
    • Online (APMEX, etc) usually have a SELL and BUY costs for the same coin. Of course the BUY price is below their SELL price at the same instant you BUY.
    • Some people that collect bullion coins like to pay as close to spot as possible.
    • People that "collect" certain bullion coins may pay a premium, totally dependent upon how they "collect" as or not as an "investment".
    It all comes down to knowledge.
    The less a "BUYER" knows the more likely they are to pay a premium or a hefty premium on a coin that may be purchased for far less from another location. Case in point the TV Sellers that sell things that maybe 40% or 100% more than from APMEX. They use "Colors", "various labels" or "signatures" to make it seem they "add value" when it really doesn't.

    There are threads from time to time of someone wanting to get a valuation of someone's collection, which was all bought from TV sources. They find out the true valuation is far less than what the TV spiel was about it. They thought they would have "hundreds of thousands of dollars" of "investment coins" only to come to the reality they only have "Hundreds of dollars" of coins.

    Don't even ask about those Silver/Gold IRAs.
     
  14. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    @tommyc03 Do you still have your lunchbox? That appreciated much better than most coins I think. :)
     
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  15. tommyc03

    tommyc03 Senior Member

    Yes, still have it. It's in a showcase with some other family memorabilia.
     
    Collecting Nut likes this.
  16. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Nice!
     
  17. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Like the guys before me said.....if you LIKE a particular coin, slabbed or not, that's your personal choice.

    But from an investment POV, buying only new stuff or graded coins at a (huge) premium is definitely NOT a good idea.

    I buy graded coins when it is for a gift for someone.....to have a few conversation pieces to display (MS 70 or MS70 PL for new stuff).....or when dealing with older numismatics (i.e., Saint-Gaudens gold coins).

    I have a few modern gold and silver coins that are graded, but would not make regular purchases of modern stuff. A 5-10% premium for ASEs is one thing...but paying a 50-200% premium seems foolish as silver might triple or quadruple and you'll be flat-to-barely up with the gradeds.
     
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  18. Deerman

    Deerman New Member

    Wandering man, I was about to make my first non-introductory post concerning the same topic, and found your post. I just recently decided I wanted to coin collect and I like the idea of buying silver eagles at around spot price, but they seem to be only tied to spot price and will never have any collectible value, and then I see the slabbed coins that "could" someday have collectible value, but are so highly priced now, they would really have to go up. I'm not planning to get rich either, but I would at least like to buy something that I will at break even with or preferably go up in value.
    One thing I was thinking of doing is maybe buying silver bullion when the prices are lower, like under $14. When the silver prices are around $17-$19 as they have been, stop buying the bullion and maybe collecting Peace dollars. My thinking is that when the price of silver drops, my Peace dollars can at least hold their value. I just picked up my first Peace dollar for $17 at a pawn shop that looks to be in really good condition. I see them in similar condition on the bay and people are bidding more than that on them.(I'm too new to put a grade on it, but I would guess AU?) The melt price was around $14.96 according to one website, but I figure that if the price of silver drops to $10, my Peace dollar will at least always be worth at the $17 I paid for it(as a collectible) as long I it is kept in the pouch.
    Anyway, that is how I am thinking of combining investing/collecting?
     
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  19. TONYBRONX

    TONYBRONX Well-Known Member

    Hello Wandering man we all have a lot to learn and this Hobbie requires study time, this site will help you , Hell it helps me all the time. By the way are you still collecting Mont Blanc pens and pencils?
     
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  20. Wandering Man

    Wandering Man Member

    I only have two Mont Blanc fountain pens. I am diversified in my collection, with my oldest pen dated at 1925 (a Parker Duofold "Big Red" and youngest a new 2019 model (Lamy Safari). I've got fountain pens manufactured by Sailor, Mont Blanc, Parker, Pilot, Lamy, Schaeffer, Pelikan, Jinhao, Platinum, Waterman, and others. Too many for me to rotate through in a year.
     
  21. Brian Calvert

    Brian Calvert Active Member

    I came on here just like you I think it was 2015. I bought the high relief 24K coin. Glad I did, think I paid 1420.00
    Anyway, I did not know what to buy, where, when, how... That was one of the only coins I bought from the mint. I get the Silver group of coins each year, a standing liberty, the mercury in Gold...
    Not much more, yes, I think when dead in 50 years my kid will get a premium for them... Anything new is most likely not going to grow much.

    Many on here reminded me, are you going to be a coin collector, or a bullion collector looking to make money. I am the latter as I see Fiat currency falling by the wayside at some point. What that does to the US coins, I cant say, but if it is made out of Silver or GOLD I can get my money back at the minimum.

    Thus, I now buy with cash from a coin dealer, unless, like I wrote the mint has something I want. Or, my 2008 W Buffalo burnished, looked, waited for GOLD to drop to around 1200.00 and bought that coin for 2300.00.(I think they hold this price minimum and will go up). There is a list of Modern : https://www.pcgs.com/top100/

    That will give you some to look for... Buy Gold Eagle, Buffalos, maple leafs...
    In Silver stick to the Eagles...

    The coin guys of course dont like the bars too much. They are easier to copy, cheat on weight, etc. Just better to find a close dealer that will go 3% or there about... THe smaller the GOLD coin the more premium you will pay..

    Example ONLY : Go in and buy 1 oz Gold eagle at $1600.00
    or buy 2 ea. 1/2 eagles at $ 1650.00
    4ea 1/4 " " " $ 1710.00
    10 ea 1/10 " " $ 1825.00

    I buy Silver Eagle, whatever he has as a tube of 20 as long as same date and clean... You may get lucky and find harder years, 2010, or some year down there is a little less common. You can tell by looking at the tubes of 20 on APMEX, some years are 1,2, and even 3$ more per coin.

    Be careful with the dealer, there will be several, you want a person you can trust, has a good personality, wants to chat it up if not too busy... Not a PAWN SHOP BROKER Personality... Nice but looking to beat you if YOU dont know the answer, he considers that his advantage and his right to abuse the situation.

    Good Luck !!!
     
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