Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Bullion Investing
>
Investing In Copper Bullion
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="NorthKorea, post: 1728240, member: 29643"]To put this into perspective (which would settle this for rational individuals, but probably not anyone who's considering an investment in copper bullion), here are the percentages of the earth's crust for some metals we consider bullion, and copper:</p><p><br /></p><p>Silver (Ag): 7.9E-6</p><p>Gold (Au): 3.1E-7</p><p>Platinum (Pt): 3.7E-7</p><p>Copper (Cu): 6.8E-3</p><p><br /></p><p>That gives us ratios of:</p><p><br /></p><p>Ag/Au : 25.48</p><p>Ag/Pt: 21.35</p><p>Cu/Ag: 860.76</p><p><br /></p><p>So, the relative ratio of Cu/Ag compared to Ag/Au is 33.78. So, to answer the question of whether copper can be to silver what silver was to gold, no.</p><p><br /></p><p>Silver bugs argue that the "silver-gold ratio" should be around 25x based upon the relative abundance of the two elements in the crust. This explains why a range of 15-125x isn't that unusual.</p><p><br /></p><p>By contrast, the "copper-silver ratio" should be around 860x based upon the same rationale. This would make a price range of 500x-4000x within reason. Based upon $100 silver (not calling for silver to be $100 per ounce, but rather trying to keep the math simple), that would imply copper priced anywhere from $0.025-$0.20 per troy ounce, assuming equivalent industrial demand and supply. The reason for silver having a lower than expected (or copper having a higher than expected) price is based upon the costs associated with extraction of the metals.</p><p><br /></p><p>If copper were assumed to have the same extraction costs as silver, we would expect copper to currently have a price in the $0.0055-$0.044 per troy ounce. (To be lazy, I'm going to make a poor assumption that a troy ounce is essentially the same as an avoirdupois ounce and say that a pound of copper would cost the same as 16 troy ounces. I know the assumption is wrong, but it works for the purposes of this argument.) So, we'd expect copper to have a current value of $0.088-$0.704 per pound. Copper currently has a sell price of $3.1725 per pound or more than 4.5x the expected price of copper (based upon the Cu:Ag ratio).</p><p><br /></p><p>So, even if we argue that copper is to silver (today) what silver was to gold (in the 1960s), we would expect the "bullion" value of copper to drop rather than rise.</p><p><br /></p><p>There's no way that copper reaches bullion status unless we figure out a way to consume significantly more of the base metal than we do today, and that just won't happen in our lifetime.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="NorthKorea, post: 1728240, member: 29643"]To put this into perspective (which would settle this for rational individuals, but probably not anyone who's considering an investment in copper bullion), here are the percentages of the earth's crust for some metals we consider bullion, and copper: Silver (Ag): 7.9E-6 Gold (Au): 3.1E-7 Platinum (Pt): 3.7E-7 Copper (Cu): 6.8E-3 That gives us ratios of: Ag/Au : 25.48 Ag/Pt: 21.35 Cu/Ag: 860.76 So, the relative ratio of Cu/Ag compared to Ag/Au is 33.78. So, to answer the question of whether copper can be to silver what silver was to gold, no. Silver bugs argue that the "silver-gold ratio" should be around 25x based upon the relative abundance of the two elements in the crust. This explains why a range of 15-125x isn't that unusual. By contrast, the "copper-silver ratio" should be around 860x based upon the same rationale. This would make a price range of 500x-4000x within reason. Based upon $100 silver (not calling for silver to be $100 per ounce, but rather trying to keep the math simple), that would imply copper priced anywhere from $0.025-$0.20 per troy ounce, assuming equivalent industrial demand and supply. The reason for silver having a lower than expected (or copper having a higher than expected) price is based upon the costs associated with extraction of the metals. If copper were assumed to have the same extraction costs as silver, we would expect copper to currently have a price in the $0.0055-$0.044 per troy ounce. (To be lazy, I'm going to make a poor assumption that a troy ounce is essentially the same as an avoirdupois ounce and say that a pound of copper would cost the same as 16 troy ounces. I know the assumption is wrong, but it works for the purposes of this argument.) So, we'd expect copper to have a current value of $0.088-$0.704 per pound. Copper currently has a sell price of $3.1725 per pound or more than 4.5x the expected price of copper (based upon the Cu:Ag ratio). So, even if we argue that copper is to silver (today) what silver was to gold (in the 1960s), we would expect the "bullion" value of copper to drop rather than rise. There's no way that copper reaches bullion status unless we figure out a way to consume significantly more of the base metal than we do today, and that just won't happen in our lifetime.[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Bullion Investing
>
Investing In Copper Bullion
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...