In search of a Starr Group V owl.

This piece I bought out of Stack's NYICS Auction, Jan 5th, 2012, lot# 213. I recall they dated this coin back to 480BC but my belief is that it's a typical mass production owl of the period 454 - 440 BC. It's probably not as late as 413 as the style's still a little better.



One reason I bought this one is that it featured a fuller crest [tho is still not a full crest]. After buying it I noticed a lot of "fuller crests" come onto the market. I guess these were all of a similar period?

Years after I bought this I submitted a whole bunch of coins to Ex-Numis. They normally don't find much but here they found this one pedigreed to The Numismatic Auction Ltd, Tradart, auction 2, Dec 12, 1983, NY (USA), lot# 109.

Still I should have bought it in 2022 rather than 2012 and paid 3x too much. It's my only owl as I've too many other holes in my collection to fill 1st! The way Ancients prices are exploding tho I think I may have to wait till 2032.

 

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Regarding the crest, I think you're right. As production proceeded into the mass output period, it seems that the portraits became a bit flatter and smaller, to accommodate more of the crest on the flan.

The earlier tetradrachms seem to emphasize more of the central portions - the face, helmet and sometimes the lower neck - and if part of the crest appeared, that was just coincidental.

Also, the flans became wider as mass production moved ahead, possibly as a means to reduce the time needed to achieve a decent, acceptably centered strike. Some of the later tetradrachms have significantly off center obverse strikes, yet almost all of the face and helmet still show, albeit way to the left or right.

 

Hello, I have tried to follow #42 to find out which type my new tetradrachm really is.

Weight: 17.22 g
Diameter: 27.00 mm
MS(60-62)

All these Flament Groups, Kroll plates, Svoronos plates etc. are so confusing.

Can any one please tell my Flament Group, Svoronos plate and connected minting period?
On the first glimpse I guess it could possibly be a "Flament Group I Late" tetradrachm, from 460-440 BC.

Also what I recognized: the leaf on the helmet always has 5 ends, mine seems to only have 4. What does this mean? Using the image from post #42 to explain:


What you you think? Thanks already in advance ;-)

 

The fifth end is still there in your coin but it is either weakly struck or worn. You can see the outline if you look closely

 

I hope it's weakly struck as it's an MS coin ;-)

 

I can see that we have quite some experts here. @Terence Cheesman would you possibly be willing to bring in your immense expertise? After more research the coin looks very similar to Flament group II, 35 L or H (440-420 BC).
I am so curious what you have to say ;-) Thank you so much.

 

Thank you but I am hardly an expert. I am still trying to fumble my way through this complex series of coins. In response to @mr.roddy. When I looked at your coin I came to the immediate conclusion that it was a Flament Group II. I agree with @pprp that one of the spikes of the palmet is understruck. I believe this group to have been minted from circa 450 to the Peace of Nikias in 421 AD. The Group II coins are something of a challenge. Flament is not a die study and looking at the book I thought your obverse looked a bit more like II 27. The reverse in this case would be k. The reverse h does seem to me to be close but I am not very happy with the available obverses. I have only one Group II coin
Athens Ar Tetradrachm 450-440 BC (I believe this coin is within the early part of this sequence hence the dating) Obv. Head of Athena right in Attic style helmet.Rv Owl standing right head facing. Flament Group II 13/b 17.08 grms 23 mm Photo by W Hansen

 

Hello @Terence Cheesman , thank you so much for your expertise. So you would assume it's either a Flament group II 27/k or ??/h. Great to know.
When you say "Flament is not a die study", is it better to use Svoronos plates to identify the type?
Again, thank you ;-)