In search of a Starr Group V owl.

I've been going through my David Sear certificates (not too many, really), and he assigned one coin that I submitted for certification a Starr Group V.B series 3 designation. The interesting point is that this coin doesn't clearly show the three separate tail feathers, but rather just a hint, due to the off-center strike, so I guess that's good enough for it to qualify.

I don't have the Starr reference, having just ordered it, so perhaps there are other distinguishing characteristics that qualify it for this group.

 

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In response to robinjojo. Your coin does look like a Starr 5 B Series 3 Again using the coin from CNG I posted earlier
1. The palmet or decoration on the bowl of the helmet is consistent
2. The angle of the head of the owl is also consistent
3. The bird is nicely plump as are most of the owls of this group
In response to DonnaML Unfortunately there is nothing on line that covers the Athenian "mass coinage" in any detail The best reference is by Christophe Flament He discusses the mass coinage using some 60 pages with 39 pages of plates. Even that barely scratches the surface. However I will attempt to carry on where my last post left off Flament Group I Early Some call this a "transitional coinage" In most respects this group resembles the Starr Group 5 B coins The most obvious difference is the treatment of the tail feathers. This is consistent with all three groups within the mass coinage. However the palmet is similar as well as the angle of the head of the owl as well as its robustness.
Flament Group I Late This coin was advertised as a Starr 5 and I bought it thinking it was a Flament Group II The palmet on the helmet is slightly simplified and the head of the owl is straight. What separates this coin from a Group II is that the head of the owl is ever so slightly tilted back so that it looks like it is trying to look upwards.
Flament Group II On this coin the palmet is becoming even more simplified and the owl is becoming more squat.

Flament Group III On this coin the image of Athena is more coarsely drawn. The palmet is very simple The eye of Athena is opening up at one end. There is also a faint pupil present The image of the owl is more coarse as well. The reverse punch is becoming much more shallow. As luck would have it except for my Starr Group IV tetradrachm I puchaed every one of my Athenian tetradrachms just before the hoard came out. Again except for the image from CNG all photos are done by W. Hansen

 

Thank you. I guess I also need to get a copy of Flament's book.

I do have a recent arrival, which, based on the information regarding Flament, probably puts it Flament Group 1, Late Transitional. I noticed however, that the palmet is somewhat different in that it is missing the two branches or leaves above the lower extending leaves. I've noticed this style in other examples. Would this be considered a variation?

This coin weighs 16.8 grams, and it is on a somewhat compact oblong flan, at least with respect to the obverse die. It must have taken considerable skill to get the obverse centered, with little room for error.

 

Many thanks. A long but interesting article with another classification system for Athens "mass coinage" Owls, by Reid Goldsborough, can be found at https://rg.ancients.info/owls/.

Judging from the photos you posted above of the Flament types, my own Owl, while not in great condition -- I bought it from John Jencek at the 2007 NYINC for about $300 -- looks most like Flament Group III, although it resembles Group II in some ways as well. (The reverse is marred by a large test cut in the owl's head, plus a circular banker's mark in the owl's stomach.) I'm sure that there are a great many variations within each of those groups. Goldsborough's article has some criticisms of Flament's classification system.

 

Wonderful coin Donna!

 

Wonderful information... I know I will add an Owl someday and these posts are very informative.

 

I think the spiral palmette is not missing branches. Rather, this specific style has very thin plamette instead. The olive leaves are also narrower, and separate further away from each other. Some examples of this style have very cool Athena faces IMHO.

I always wonder which Flament group this belongs to. Wonder if @Terence Cheesman has some pointers.

 

Robinjojo coin looks to me to be a Flament group II most likely a II.4 obverse and a II b reverse. Donna ML is also a Group II Most likely a Flament Group II 40. Her's has a rather unusual arrangement of the palmet as well as the narrow eye of that group. The reverse is a bit more of a problem but it looks like a II q My last coin is this one. It has a Group III obverse and is likely done by the same hand as the Group III coin I had posted above But it has a Group II reverse. Photo by W. Hansen

 

Many thanks.

 

Thank you all for this very informative chat.

Is earring size another determinant of classification? I've noticed that the earring becomes larger on the later issues, and it is quite small for earlier ones.

I have some more owls I'd like to post, but 1) I need to locate them and 2) they need to be photographed. I'm trying to create my own images, as lousy as they are, but I'm slowly learning, very slowly.

 

Great coin. When you receive STARR, take a look at plates XXII no 8, and XXIII no 10, make a photocopy and send them along with the certificate back to the person who certified and ask your money back.

 

I would also like to buy a copy, but I haven't been able to find it for sale anywhere.

 

Beware that it is in French. Send an email to the address in the page and they will tell you how to pay etc http://numismatica.fltr.ucl.ac.be

 

Thanks. I read French.

 

However, it's been so many years since I've written in French that I'm much more comfortable writing in English. Do you think I can assume that they'll understand me if I write in English, or should I take the step of Google-translating my message into French first? I do hope they accept Paypal or credit cards, because if they require payment by bank/wire transfer, the fee my bank charges ($50+) will approximately equal the cost of the book (50 Euros). Thanks.

[Edited to add: I already went ahead and sent the email, translating it into French first, asking for the total cost including shipping to the USA, and what methods of payment they accept. I already noticed on the website that they say they don't accept credit cards, so I have a feeling that I'm going to be told that a bank transfer is the only option, and I will then have to decide if I'm really willing to spend a total of around $100 for the book!]

 

They do respond in English...To avoid expensive bank fees you could use a service like transferwise; the fees for such amount won't be more than 1 or 2$. If you are not comfortable you can try a platform shop like this
https://www.ma-shops.com/jacquier/item.php?id=526
The 1st option means that you support the researchers and not a private business. IMHO, if you don't plan to start a collection of Athenian tetradrachms, you don't really need this. (No I am not Flament).

 

I took three years of French and barely remember anything, especially when it is being spoken.

Tres Difficile!

 

Thanks for the link. But: $74.65 US for the book, plus $51.93 US for shipping. No thanks! I'll wait for the response to my email!

 

I was able to locate one more Starr Group V tetradrachm in my collection, from Roma Numismatics, E-Sale 62. This example hammered at £340, plus 20% buyer's commission and currency conversion, so the final cost was around $550.



Attica, Athens AR Tetradrachm. Circa 465-460 BC. Head of Athena right, wearing crested Attic helmet ornamented with three olive leaves above visor and spiral palmette on bowl, round earring with central boss, and pearl necklace / Owl standing to right with head facing, olive sprig and crescent behind, ΑΘΕ before; all within incuse square. Starr group V.A, series 3; HGC 4, 1596. 17.11g, 24mm, 10h.

Very Fine.

From the inventory of a UK dealer.

It's not the best example around, to be sure, but it was relatively affordable. Anything super high grade in this category costs big bucks.

I just received the Chester Starr reference on Friday, so I am looking forward going through the collection to identify any other candidates, but I suspect they will be few and far between, if that. The vast numbers will fall later in time, during the mass production, and in the providence Christophe Flament's work on Athenian tetradrachms of that period.

 

This is a very nice piece, @robinjojo. Thanks for showing. It is always nice to see Starr V examples. You got it at a very good price. Nowadays, the same dollar amount probably will only get us a VF Mass Classical with a test cut.