If solar goes mainstream will silver prices skyrocket?

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by Gam3rBlake, May 29, 2021.

  1. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    I've been seeing advertisements for the Toyota Mirai...
    https://www.toyota.com/mirai/
     
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  3. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Right, and storing a season worth of hydrogen is still a bit beyond us.
    There was actually a pumped-storage facility, Smith Mountain Lake/Leesville Lake, a few miles off from where I lived in the 1970s. That works, too, but (a) it's not very efficient and (b) it's nowhere near enough for a season's worth of power.

    I'm not sure where the "storing for the winter" question actually comes from, though, unless you're way north (or way south, as in Antarctica). You get less solar flux in the winter, but still a significant amount, and most places still get wind in the winter as well. The supply fluctuations we need to smooth out are over hours or days, not seasons.
     
  4. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Yup, this it the Ivanpah generating station close to Vegas...
    pe_solar-thermal-1080x675.jpg

    flat mirrors converging on the central boiler. There are a few around that heat up a salt compound that is pumped through pipes and through a boiler to produce steam. It is then routed to an insulated storage tank for overnight use. Just don't let the salt solidify!!! :)
     
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  5. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    Sadly, half the nations on this globe could give a tinkers hoot about climate change.
     
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  6. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Junior Member

    https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2021/05/hyundai-xcient-fuel-cell-hd-truck-on-its-way/

    The Hyundai Xcient is on its way to becoming the first mass-produced hydrogen-powered, heavy-duty truck. Design and performance improvements have made it more competitive with those expected from Mercedes-Benz, Toyota-Hino, and Nikola.


    [​IMG]

    “Leveraging more than 20 years of experience in fuel cell technology, Hyundai Motor furthers its vision of an eco-friendly hydrogen society,” said Jaehoon (Jay) Chang, Commercial Vehicle Division CEO and president.

    “Hyundai will contribute to widespread adoption of hydrogen-powered commercial vehicles with the 2021 Xcient Fuel Cell.”

    [​IMG]

    Xcient Fuel Cell’s 180-kW hydrogen fuel cell system has two 90-kW fuel cell stacks. Improved durability and fuel efficiency have made it more competitive with others in its class.

    A 350-kW e-motor with 2,237 Nm torque is said to provide dynamic driving performance.

    [​IMG]

    Seven large fuel tanks hold 31 kg, while a 72-kWh set of batteries supplies power. The maximum driving range is around 400 km. Refueling a full tank of hydrogen takes anywhere from 8 to 20 minutes, depending on ambient temperature.

    [​IMG]

    The Xcient Fuel Cell’s updated exterior design has a V-shape. The high-tech fuel cell electric truck has a new grille, with a blue color point surrounding it, and graphics that signal its hydrogen energy usage.

    A 6×2 rigid body as well as the 4×2 option introduced previously are available.

    HD fuel cell truck global advancement plans for Hyundai have been accelerated with this launch.

    Hyundai shipped 46 Xcient Fuel Cell units to Switzerland last year. Their cumulative range is 750,000 kilometers as of May, 2021. Over that distance, the hydrogen-powered trucks reduced carbon emissions by an estimated 585 tons versus diesel-powered vehicles.

    Switzerland will receive 140 additional Xcients by year’s end. 1,600 heavy-duty fuel cell electric trucks will be in Europe by 2025. Hyundai Hydrogen Mobility, a joint venture between Hyundai Motor and H2 Energy, will introduce Xcient in other European countries.

    2021 Hyundai Xcient Fuel Cell production begins in August.
     
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  7. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    31kg of hydrogen is roughly equivalent to 12 or 13 gallons of diesel, I believe. That's a pretty tiny tank for a semi. And I guess 400km (250 miles) of range is correspondingly small. It looks like these trucks must be a lot more energy efficient than the typical diesel-fueled semi, and even then, it seems like they're well under the threshold of practicality.

    Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a robust hydrogen economy for motor vehicles -- clean and efficient hydrogen production, distribution, dispensing, and burning. It still don't see a path to it, though.
     
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  8. benveniste

    benveniste Type Type

    I doubt it will anytime soon. To see why, let me toss out a couple of numbers at you. At the turn of the millennia, the worldwide photographic industry was consuming about a quarter of a million ounces of silver a year. That source of demand has fallen by 70%. That difference alone is sufficient to cover that used both in automotive electric and solar panels.

    According to a study commissioned by the Silver Institute, because of advances in technology, the use of silver in PV panels peaked in 2019 and will not reach 2019 levels again until after 2030.

    https://www.silverinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/SilverSolarPower_CRU2020.pdf

    So absent some other technological need for silver, or consumer tastes swinging back towards silver jewelry and silver tableware, I don't see any skyrockets.
     
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  9. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Supporter! Supporter

    A quarter million ounces seems very small considering the solar market.

    12 troy oz per home x 250,000 homes = 3 million troy oz of silver alone. That's 12x more than the worldwide phorographic industry at the turn of the millenia.

    & 250,000 is just a tiny share of homes in America.

    Then you factor in the entire developed world. Oh and not just homes but basically any building could benefit from solar panels. Restaurants, hospitals, basically any building.


    That's a potentially huge demand for silver.
     
  10. thomas mozzillo

    thomas mozzillo Supporter! Supporter

    I'm guilty of the same. :oops: :sorry:
     
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  11. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Agreed. Most diesel semis have a non-stop range of about 2000 mi or 3200km. I don't know a long hauler who wouldn't scoff at the notion that range would be limited to half that, let alone to 1/8th of that range.

    Practical? . . . Not even close.
     
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  12. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Me too. I always thought the guy in the avatar looked like Gronk, so I assumed @Gam3rBlake was a Gronk lookalike . . . not.
     
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  13. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Junior Member

    it's obviously not for long haul trucking. it's for cities where clean vehicles are mandated
     
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  14. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Yeah, looking at it again, I see that it's not a semi-class truck. I don't know my trucks especially well, but I see ones similar to this showing up occasionally at work, most often in the "custom courier" tier -- one step above "put it on the next available truck", more like "you know those trucks we're paying you to keep ready at a moment's notice? Send one from right here to right there. NOW."
     
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  15. Garlicus

    Garlicus Debt is dumb, cash is king. Supporter

    I love my 12 made in USA solar panels, which were not the proposed panels, but my installer had no problem substituting. Just as good as LG and other panels https://www.missionsolar.com/ I haven’t paid an electric bill since February 2020. They were installed in late September 2019.

    With net-metering, I currently have a $284 credit, plus I usually receive varying monthly checks ($15-$100+) from the utility company, through a State program.
    $16,500 to purchase (including electrical upgrade)
    ~$6,000 in State and Federal rebates
    Roughly $10,500 net cost for electricity for next 20+ years(?), plus receiving the monthly checks for 5-10 years($3-6k?), and maybe having a $5,000 credit with my electric company in 20 years, to pay future bills or sell to another customer within my grid system.

    The only thing I didn’t do, but plan to, at some point, is add a battery to the system. Hard to justify the expense ($7-9k minus 25% Federal rebate) at the moment.

    I have no affiliation with this company, other than being a satisfied customer, and I highly recommend that you look at these if you are going solar, and see if your installer will use them. They should, since they only buy the panels, not manufacture and sell them. This company has higher rated panels, too, but these were comparable to what was needed for my system. Buy American, support Americans.
    FA1C9E94-E511-4DC3-8D80-42E0980C104E.jpeg
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2021
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  16. slackaction1

    slackaction1 Supporter! Supporter

    I agree with HER.. where is that pumpkin pie..
     
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  17. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I see the batteries as useful where you don't have a grid to connect to, or can't trust the grid, or don't trust the grid.

    Friends of ours got a solar installation with battery a year or two ago. They live in a rural area with lots of trees and old overhead lines. They'd been suffering blackouts any time there was a strong breeze. For them, it wasn't about money or apocalypse, it was about being able to keep the lights (and appliances) on.
     
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  18. Garlicus

    Garlicus Debt is dumb, cash is king. Supporter

    Yes, one must assess needs versus expense. Fortunately, if I lose power, it usually isn’t for more than 2 hours, and not that often. If I were subjected to rolling blackouts, or in a rural area, I would be thinking differently.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2021
  19. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Even if you don't have a grid to connect to, it's much simpler and less expensive to hook up and run a portable generator than it is to install a battery bank, some of which are permanent and quite expensive, and require code compliant installation, and portable units, which are less costly but still expensive and do not.
     
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  20. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Junior Member


    on the other hand, some people are moving along with modern progress. don't like then or smoke from a generator and don 't want to maintain another engine and hope it starts
     
  21. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator


    Most people living off the grid have no such concerns.
     
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